In this episode, Dan reconnects with his very first guest, organizational development, coaching, and training leader Michael Glazer to see how the shiteration process is going. A lot has changed since Michael's first appearance in episode 2: he's now a podcaster, host of Humans At Work, and he and Dan start by talking about their podcasting experiences. The conversation evolves from there into a deep discussion of human interaction in a virtual world, what it means to be a leader today, how people can own their jobs, and much more. It's a dynamic, engaging conversation that proves how, given time and intent, shiteration is a winning strategy.