] and this person and that person and they'll have like a bunch of analysts, a marketing person, a PR firm. It will be like a 15 or 20 person organization and there will be like three or four developers or engineers. Man, I just think that's a lot of bloat especially considering that winter is coming or arguably it is here.

] in product organizations about tech debt, I think something that's often not discussed enough is org chart debt. Org chart debt is when you start prematurely building our your org prior to having real revenue or product market fit and you end up with this org and that has its own momentum and starts holding you back and makes it really hard to pivot. So at Nomics, [00:01:30] there's me, there's ... and I'm only non-technical person, I'm somewhat technical, I was a developer in a past life, but there's myself, our CTO and my co-founder, there's a designer/developer, essentially designer who operates at the design layer of our app and can re-theme the app essentially without having to touch other parts of the code, so definitely deploys to get hub and stuff like that. [00:02:00] We have a friend and engineer, we have someone who works in the middle end, essentially on our API and our API gateway, and we're hiring ... plug for that, we're hiring, a distributed data systems engineer who works with [Kofka 00:02:19] and Cassandra and stuff like that. So, if you know anyone whose interested in that position, please let them know.

] the org chart is more mature than the business and they end up creating all this momentum around the people they've hired and the projects that the people they've hired have developed and they end up in a place that they just can't crawl back from. Particularly, I think in our space given how active crypto Twitter is and the lure that that has, [00:03:00] and I think the lure that content marketing has in our space, I think a lot of maybe competitive organizations end up hiring marketers, blog writers, analysts, and they end up in a place where it's like, what are they, are they immediate company, are they a software company? All those people really ... [00:03:30] it's hard to measure. I think this is the biggest thing, it's hard to measure the effectiveness of what those people are doing if you don't have a product to sell, right?

] the paid product. When you don't you end up in a situation where you end up having to spend a lot of time managing people and empowering, often incredibly talented people who kind of lack in a north star, in a sense that they have no idea how the contributions that they provide affect the bottom line.