In this RedMonk conversation, Ram Iyengar, Chief Evangelist at the Cloud Foundry Foundation, chats with Rachel Stephens, Research Director at RedMonk. Their wide-ranging conversation centers on developer experience from cf push and the promise of PaaS, to Korifi, a developer platform built by the Cloud Foundry community for deploying cloud-native applications on Kubernetes. This RedMonk conversation is sponsored by the Cloud Foundry Foundation.