Apologies from the start: This podcast recording is rough because Clay Jenkinson was in the woods of Vermont when we reached him and his Internet connection cuts out for long stretches, which means there are long stretches of silence when he is supposed to be talking. 

Also, host Mike McFeely recorded it from home and his dogs chose to bark wildly at a couple of different junctures during the discussion with Clay.

So there's that. 

Instead of re-recording or heavy editing or deleting the podcast altogether, the McFeely Mess staff (Mike) made the decision to run with it.

Listen at your own risk. 

That said, the North Dakota scholar wanted to weigh in on Gov. Doug Burgum kissing up to Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. 

If you can make it through, good stuff.