Hosts Tamara and Vina discuss Tommy Orange's 2018 debut novel, There There, which delves into the lives of twelve "urban Natives" from Oakland who grapple with their personal and collective histories, identities, and relationships. As Americans celebrate Independence Day on July 4, we thought it all the more important to remember (in the words of one of the characters Dene Oxendene), "for Native people in this country, all over the Americas, it's been developed over, buried ancestral land, glass and concrete and wire and steel, unreturnable covered memory. There is no there there."