What makes some journeys become Knowing Moments — while others are simply vacations?

For years, travel was about getting somewhere for me — customer meetings, keynotes, leadership offsites, tight schedules. I'd come home with more airline miles than memories.

These days I travel differently. In this episode, I sit down with Nancy Mounir, my former Chief of Staff at Microsoft and one of my closest friends, to talk about a work trip to Saudi Arabia that changed how we both see the world — and why the moments that stay with us are so rarely the ones we planned.

We talk about assumptions that fell apart on contact, the unplanned detours that outlast the itinerary, and why the greatest souvenir might not be a thing at all.

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Logo and other art courtesy of Andy Reddout.

This podcast was produced by Tom Larson and Sue Corcoran, and edited by Amy Enser.