Biella Coleman explores the earliest hacking subculture - The Phone Phreaks. An entire subculture that learned to manipulate the phone system with plastic whistles and tone generating blue boxes, and played a part in birthing the modern digital world. She talks with Phil Lapsley, author of ‘Exploding the Phone’ and, Belial, a UK hacker who was one of the last generation of traditional phone phreaks, about the joy and the risks of the earliest type of hacking.