Yascha Mounk and Adam Bodnar examine why Poland’s celebrated victory over illiberalism is now very much in doubt.Adam Bodnar is a Professor of Law at SWPS University in Warsaw, heading the Department for Rule of Law and Human Rights. He is also a Senator of the Republic of Poland, elected in October 2023, and a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. He previously served as Minister of Justice (December 2023–July 2025) and as Ombudsman of Poland (2015–2021).In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Adam Bodnar discuss the post-populist dilemma, how Poland’s pro-democratic coalition defeated an illiberal government in 2023 as well as the challenges it has faced since, and what lessons Poland’s experience has for the United States.This conversation was recorded at the ⁠Liberalism for the 21st Century⁠ conference in Washington, D.C., which is organized by the Institute for the Study of Modern Authoritarianism.If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone.Email: [email protected]Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay.Connect with us!Spotify | AppleX: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasionYouTube: Yascha Mounk, PersuasionLinkedIn: Persuasion CommunityLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices