My venture into humanist podcasting series continues with this discussion of Jacinda Ardern and Donald Trump with reference to the Confucian notion of "moral charisma" as the two leaders offer very different responses to both domestic and global crises. In Confucian thought, the conduct of the leader,for good or bad, affects the character of the entire society over which he or she has authority. Few contemporary societies illustrate this notion better than New Zealand on the one hand, and the United States on the other, in their radially different responses to the crises currently besetting the world.