"Et tu, Brute? And you, Brutus?" These are the famous last words of Julius Caesar as he was murdered and betrayed by his ally, Marcus Brutus, at least the way Shakespeare tells it. But did he actually say them? The name of Brutus has been passed down from the ancient world as both a hero and a villain. Brutus helped lead a conspiracy to assassinate a tyrant and would-be king. His actions forever changed the course of the Roman Republic, and historians, philosophers, or playwrights have struggled to reconcile with his legacy for two millennia. My guest on the podcast this week was Dr. Kathryn Tempest who joined me from the University of Roehampton in the United Kingdom to discuss her latest book, Brutus: The Noble Conspirator. Kathryn is Senior Lecturer in Roman History and Latin Literature.  Her research concentrates on the literature, history and political life of the late Roman republic, with particular interests in oratory and rhetoric, all aspects of Cicero, ancient letters and biography. She is the author of Cicero: Politics and Persuasion in Ancient Rome and Hellenistic Oratory: Continuity and Change, which she co-edited with Christos Kremmydas. Kathryn has a great deal to say about the challenges of writing a biography on an ancient figure with limited contemporary primary sources, what we know about Brutus's motivations, the impact of the assassination of Caesar, and how Brutus has been evaluated and re-evaluated over the ages. For more information on this conversation, visit the podcast show notes at www.cantmakethisuppodcast.com where you will find my personal reflections, a link to the today's book, and helpful research for you to dive deeper into this topic. *NOTE: There is a little scratchiness in the first 15 minutes or so of the episode stemming from our Skype connection during the interview. I was able to minimize some of it, but I ask that you bear with us through the episode.