“We can only really hang out and relate to each other when we're messed up on drugs or alcohol...people say it's social anxiety, but it might be because we don't feel safe with the men we're interacting with or our own emotions.” In this Episode Josh Schott and Greg Horwitch – co-founders of Organizing White Men for Collective Liberation (OWMCL) talk with The Better Bozos about what white men miss when we avoid the work of challenging white-supremacy, patriarchy, and capitalism. Why do men feel out of place at SURJ meetings?

Many Men’s groups

What’s in it for white men- to give a shit?

Josh, origin story-

Greg- Childhood the Northeast

How do you identify?

Greg is frozen in the Zoom

Vision for OWMCL

Jeff’s discomfort

What’s it like to organize with white men?

Calling in (white fragility)