In this episode…we get to the chicken and egg dilemma in the efforts to reduce poverty in this country. We’ve already talked about the current programs that have been successful at raising the more vulnerable Canadians out of poverty. So, there are best practices we can build upon. But there are two chronic issues that stagger the mission. One is a growing income gap and a diminishing middle class. The other is the increasingly urgent need for affordable housing – and not just in major urban centres like Toronto and Vancouver. Addressing both with some urgency is critical if we’re going to develop resiliency in our social services and for those in need of those supports. And today, our guests say the greatest obstacle has been a lack of political leadership and commitment David Hardy is an urban planner. President and CEO of Hardy Stevenson and Associates and the Executive Director of the Institute for New Suburbanism. Sean Meagher is the Coordinator at Convene Toronto And Magda Barrera is a Housing and Economics Policy Analyst at the Advocacy Centre for Tenants Ontario.