In an emotionally charged episode, Rory kicks it off talking about the Group Material monograph, Show and Tell, that leads to a discussion on art and design and how to define them. The conversation meanders through a variety of topics including the public’s perception of graphic design, the idea of multiple publics, who design is for, and what is the goal of our work. The episode wraps up with both of us reflecting on why we find design so interesting in the first place and some thoughts on why we started Sway a year ago. Links from this episode are available at this-is-sway.tumblr.com.