Jim talks all things DevOps with Dave Mangot from Mangoteque.  Dave's philosophy is "Get Good at Delivering Software", and he has helped many well-known companies become "best in class"  We discuss the four keys that define a company's competence in software delivery; deployment frequency, lead time for changes, change failure rate, and time to recovery.  There's also a heated discussion about whether "the cloud" is cheaper than running your own data center.