This episode of Baby Crazy is a free-range conversation between Lee Schneider and Sam Lamott. It begins with a discussion of art and failure, and soon zeroes in on how fathers are imperfect but vital role models.

We ask: How can we be fathers without the labels, without the definitions, without worrying what other people think?

As Sam says, What matters to him is that his son will see him thrive, “because at the end of the day I am this young man's first role model. He'll have way cooler or more impressive role models down the road I'm sure, but I'm the first one. I'm his template essentially.”

Check out Sam's project Hello Humans.