In this episode I speak with Phil Gould, drummer, composer, songwriter & producer who was a founding member of 1980's band, Level 42.  He is now an independent artist releasing solo work along with collaborations across Europe. We chat about the ups and downs of fame and touring and the effects this had on Phil's personal life. We also pick up on a theme we have heard from other guests, the connection between suffering, pain and great art.  There is a great anecdote about David Bowie, some deep diving into Phil's musical inspirations and exciting news about forthcoming projects. .