Charles talks with Zena Hitz about her beautiful book Lost in Thought: The Hidden Treasures of an Intellectual Life. They cover why and how she chose her vivid examples of particular goods of the intellectual life, the importance of treating the intellect as an end to itself rather than instrumentalizing it for prestige or politics, the role of withdrawal—forced or free, physical or internal—MC Hammer's love of the philosophy of science and Zena's book, and the integration of intellectual life within Christianity.