<p>Michael speaks with Anthony Vinci, former career intelligence officer and the first Chief Technology Officer of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. They discuss Anthony's new book, "The Fourth Intelligence Revolution: The Future of Espionage and the Battle to Save America", which explores how artificial intelligence and intensive competition with China have transformed modern spycraft. Anthony explains his forecast where "machines are going to spy on machines," rendering legacy counterterrorism and Cold War operations obsolete. He warns that adversarial surveillance strategy now directly targets the digital lives of everyday Americans, demanding an urgent re-assessment of how Washington approaches economic espionage to protect national sovereignty.</p>

Formerly known as Intelligence Matters, the NatSec Matters podcast features former senior national security officials Michael Allen, Jeremy Bash, and Andrew Shapiro as they interview top leaders in national security, including intelligence officers, military leaders, and policymakers, on the most critical security challenges of our time. Their interviews offer insights into the world's most pressing problems and assess the effectiveness of U.S. policy responses. They also explore the biographies and careers of individuals who have devoted their lives to protecting our nation, offering listeners a rare glimpse into the inner workings of national security decision-making. If you are interested in becoming a sponsor, please email our team at bgs@bgsdc.com.