Massage Therapy  without Borders
Massage Therapy without Borders
In this podcast, massage therapy educators, practitioners and positive deviants Cathy Ryan, RMT and Cal Cates, LMT will use research, science, experience and humor to explore the differences and similarities in the practice, regulation, education trends and so much more of the “landscape” of the massage therapy profession in Canada and the United States and beyond. Occasional guests will join us to share their perspectives on healthcare policy, massage education, research, regulatory challenges and other relevant topics that will help us all navigate this hard-to-wrangle profession. You’ll always learn something. You’ll always laugh and you’ll come away better informed and with real things you can do in your own community and practice to create a more professional and sustainable future for massage therapy.
Episode 33: It's Not Magic
If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might be in the hands of one of massage therapist DeeDee Hoover's clients. This week, DeeDee joins Cathy and Cal to talk about pediatric massage therapy. What do we need to know about working with children (and the adults who love them)? How can we bring our aware, compassionate, adult-type skills to bear when working with pediatric clients and patients? And what is the hardest part about working with children? (Hint: It's probably not what you think.)***************************Continue the conversation at the Healwell Community:***************************About Our Guest:DeeDee Hoover is the owner of Whole Health Myotherapy in Beaverton, Oregon. After 30 years in the Massage Therapy and Bodywork profession working with prenatal and chronic pain patients, she has turned her focus to preventing chronic pain by working with the pediatric population and assisting other massage therapists to invite this amazing population into their practices. Her passion is to share with parents and caretakers what can be done for their children in daily lives to allow them to grow into happy healthy adults!Find DeeDee on Facebook:
Nov 21
1 hr
Episode 32: Running Interference
Massage therapists have many thoughts and feelings about their organizations and organizational leaders. This week, Cal and Cathy reach into another time zone for a perspective from the other side of the world. Ann Davey, CEO of Massage and Myotherapy Australia, is on the podcast to talk about massage regulation, COVID concerns, and the practice of massage therapy in Australia. In this episode you will discover that although our toilet flushes swirl in opposite directions, but our hope and concerns are going the same way.******************************************************Join the Healwell Community: community.healwell.orgCheck out our online courses:******************************************************About Our Guest:Ann Davey is the Chief Executive Officer of Massage & Myotherapy Australia (, a not-for-profit (NFP) organization which is the leading representative body for massage therapists, remedial massage therapists and myotherapists across Australia. Her focus is on delivering exceptional Strategic, Operational and Human Resources Leadership whilst reporting to the Board of Directors, along with finding new ways to engage with members including webcast shows The Wellness Program and Connect. All episodes are available on the Facebook page (, website, YouTube channel (, and LinkedIn page. Ann has over 20 years of leadership experience across NFP, university and commercial organisations, holds a Bachelor of Commerce, Human Resources and Administration Management. She thrives on challenges, problem solving and providing leadership and development strategies to employees and colleagues.Ann lives in Melbourne with her husband, family of four children and Buddy their gorgeous Kelpie. She volunteers with some friends running a Repair Café, an initiative to reduce landfill where they teach members of the community to repair or repurpose items they would otherwise throw away.
Nov 14
57 min
Episode 31: The O Words
"How do you take good care of something you don't like?" Cal and Cathy sit with Hilary and Dana of Be Nourished to take a good look at bodies -- our own, other people's, and the socially constructed lenses that block compassion, acceptance, and access to quality care. This episode is critically important for all humans who have and live in bodies.Be Nourished website: Science:******************************************************Giving Tuesday is December 1. Help us create a world with more compassion, more collaboration, and more love.******************************************************About Our Guests:Since 2005, Hilary Kinavey, MS, LPC and Dana Sturtevant, MS, RD have been facilitating transformational work that is focused on creating a body-compassionate and weight-inclusive world.In their individual practices, Hilary and Dana noticed something: most of the actions people take to control the size, weight, and shape of their bodies are not sustainable and often cause more harm than good, despite their greatest intentions.Hilary and Dana offer programs, workshops, retreats, and e-courses for individuals looking to reclaim body trust and the power to psychologically and physically be nourished in a culture filled with weight bias and body oppression.They are also committed to providing those in the helping professions with the training and support to offer weight-inclusive and trauma-informed care to everyone. For seven years, Hilary and Dana taught in the Eating Disorder Certificate Program at Lewis & Clark College’s Graduate School of Education and Counseling in Portland, OR. Be Nourished offers an independent study e-course, support for culture change in organizations, and an intensive certification program for practitioners.
Nov 7
1 hr 12 min
Episode 30: Representation Matters
This week, Cathy and Cal explore equity, diversity, and inclusion in the massage therapy profession. What are the barriers that keep massage therapy from being more inclusive, both for practitioners and clients? Kemi Balogun and Ann Blair Kennedy are on the podcast to talk about their research, their lived experiences, and the vital importance of representation. Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion in the Massage Therapy Profession (free full text): here to participate in Project COPE:****************************************About Our Guests:KEMI BALOGUN, BSUniversity of South Carolina School of Medicine, GreenvilleKemi Balogun is a fourth year medical student at the University of South Carolina School of Medicine Greenville. In 2016, she received her B.S. in Biology with a minor in Psychology at Wake Forest University. She has a special interest in women’s mental health and health care disparities. ANN BLAIR KENNEDY, LMT, BCTMB, DRPHUniversity of South Carolina School of Medicine, GreenvilleDr. Kennedy is an Assistant Professor at the University of South Carolina School of Medicine Greenville in the Department of Biomedical Sciences. She became a board certified and a South Carolina licensed massage therapist in 1999 and was in clinical practice prior to pursuing her Doctor of Public Health degree in Health Promotion, Education, and Behavior from the University of South Carolina. She completed her Postdoctoral Fellowship in the Human Performance Lab at the USC School of Medicine Greenville in April 2017. Dr. Kennedy’s specific research interests include: patient and stakeholder engagement in research, implementation monitoring and process evaluation, integrative medicine, and stress/wellness particularly in health professionals. Finally, she is the Director of the Patient Engagement Studio and the Executive Editor/Editor-in-Chief of the International Journal of Therapeutic Massage and Bodywork.
Oct 31
1 hr 2 min
Episode 29: If You Want Something Done, You Have to Do it Yourself
Cathy and Cal go back to school with their guest this week, Jennifer Stuart. Form owning and operating a massage school during a pandemic, to ideas for elevating massage therapy education, this week's episode tackles all the biggest and stickiest issues in massage education.**************************Continue the conversation at the Healwell Community, our space for like-minded practitioners to converse and collaborate: community.healwell.orgBetter Together, Healwell's year-long peer supervision program starts in November. Use code "MTWB" at check out for 25% off this (or any other online course:**************************About Our Guest:Born and raised on the beautiful north shore of Nova Scotia, Jenn was steeped in traditional Maritime culture in Canada’s ocean playground. Attending Acadia University, she obtained a BSc in Biology & Chemistry, intending to go into medicine. Meeting a massage therapist in the late 80’s – one of ~12 therapists in NS at the time – changed the course of her life. She entered the Canadian College of Massage & Hydrotherapy (CCMH) in 1992, graduating with honours in 1993 and has never looked back. Her career began in Alberta where she instructed at multiple massage schools, developing curriculum, and crafting her classroom prowess, as well as practicing in a variety of health care settings. Her passions were teaching the science-based courses and treating patients with chronic pain conditions. Jenn married a classmate from CCMH, Peter Stuart, who has become one of Canada’s leading myofascial release specialists. Jenn and Pete moved their family back to Nova Scotia in 1999 and continued both practicing and teaching until 2008 when Jenn retired her hands to join the administration at CCMH Halifax. Next year, 2021, marks the 75th anniversary of CCMH and the 20th anniversary of Jenn’s employment with the legacy school. As of August 2020, she is now her own boss as a very proud co-owner of the only CCMH campus remaining in Canada, in Halifax.
Oct 24
1 hr
Episode 28: Did It Help?
Ruth Werner settles in with Cal and Cathy for a deep dive into critical thinking. What is it? How do we know when we're doing it? How can it be applied in our professional and personal lives? This episode feature's Ruth's 7-point guidelines for critical thinking, as outlined in her online class, Clarity Out of Chaos: How to make sense of the information assault.Order Ruth's class here: coupon code "MTWB" at check out for 25% off. Only 10 coupons remaining!Check out the latest episode of Ruth's Podcast, "I Have a Client Who . . .":'s website: http://ruthwerner.comThe latest edition of A Massage Therapist's Guide to Pathology: Our Gust:Ruth Werner is an educator, writer, and retired massage therapist with a passionate interest in massage therapy research and the role of bodywork for people who live with health challenges. Her groundbreaking textbook, A Massage Therapist’s Guide to Pathology was first published in 1998, and is now in its 7th edition, published by Books of Discovery.Ruth is a columnist for Massage and Bodywork magazine and Massage New Zealand. She serves on several national and international volunteer committees, and teaches continuing education workshops in research and pathology all over the world. Ruth was honored with the AMTA Council of Schools Teacher of the Year Award for 2005. She was proud to serve the Massage Therapy Foundation as a Trustee from 2007 to 2017, and as President of the Foundation from 2010-2014.
Oct 17
1 hr 7 min
Episode 27: We All Need Each Other
This week, Cathy and Cal reach across the pond to bring Rachel Fairweather and Megan Mari of Jing Advanced Massage Training in Brighton, UK to the podcast. How do you create a rigorous training program in a country (UK) where the profession isn't well regulated? And will massage therapists even attend such a program? (Spoiler: Yes. Yes they will.) Rachel and Meghan also talk about how they built and maintained a robust and supportive community throughout the pandemic. You will be inspired and energized by this episode. (This episode features bonus sea bird noises and multiple human accents.)************************************************Jing Advanced Massage Training: (Sign up for the mailing list to receive information about their weekly Massage Matters Zoominar -- a unique opportunity to connect with other massage therapists.)“Massage Fusion: the Jing method for the treatment of chronic pain” - available from Handspring Publishing: courses in the Jing method:****************************************************************************Use code "MTWB" at for 25% off any of Healwell's online classes.Join our community for interdisciplinary conversations, collaboration, and exclusive Healwell content: community.healwell.orgThere's still time to sign up for the Healwell Love Run (or walk, or scoot, or swim.) Sign up for yourself, and/or support one of the other locomotioneers:****************************************************************************About Our Guests:Rachel Fairweather & Meghan Mari are the dynamic co-founders and directors of Jing Advanced Massage Training (, a UK based company providing degree level hands on and online training for all who are passionate about massage. Jing is unique in being the only school to offer degree level training in massage, soft tissue therapy and research skills in the UK and successful graduates of our 3 year programme have carried out research into all areas of soft tissue therapy.Both Rachel and Meghan have degrees in Psychology and have trained extensively in Eastern and Western bodywork. Rachel holds a Postgraduate Diploma in Social Work. an AOS in Massage Therapy and is an licensed massage therapist. Meghan is a New York Licensed massage therapist, Certified Holistic Health Educator, and holds a Masters in International Law.Rachel and Meghan are also authors of “Massage Fusion: The Jing method for the treatment of chronic pain” published by Handspring in 2015.Rachel and Meghan have over 30 years combined experience in the industry working as advanced therapists and trainers, first in New York and now throughout the UK. Due to their extensive experience, undeniable passion and intense dedication, Rachel and Meghan are sought after international guest lecturers, write regularly for professional trade magazines, and together have twice received awards for outstanding achievement in their field.
Oct 10
55 min
Episode 26: Quit Pushing Your Peas Around
Cal and Cathy welcome Dawn Hogue to the podcast to talk about human trafficking. This issue involves all of us: because traffickers use "massage" to cover their illicit businesses, because consumers may be harmed, and because people are being traumatized exploited and manipulated. We have the ability to make a positive change, as you will hear in this episode.Polaris Project (for the best information on human trafficking): https://polarisproject.orgFSMTB Human Trafficking Task Force Report: coupon code "MTWB" and get 25% off any Healwell course at the Healwell Community! It's smart, Interdisciplinary fun. community.healwell.orgThe Healwell Love Run is October 25-31. Go to to sign up for yourself and/or support the other runners.About Our Guest:Dawn M. Hogue, MA, LMTA graduate of the Cayce/Reilly® School of Massage, Dawn has been in the healing arts profession over 20 years. She serves as the Executive Director for COMTA where she manages the business operations, compliance responsibilities, and support of all Commission activities. Dawn was appointed to the Massage Therapy Advisory Board for the Virginia Department of Health Professions in 2015 and was a member of the Human Trafficking Task Force for the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards. Dawn is a graduate of Naropa University having earned a Master’s degree in Somatic Psychology. Trained in the Matrixworks model of leadership and group facilitation, she is passionate about holistic health and supporting others on their path of personal and professional development.
Oct 3
1 hr
Episode 25: Every Situation Needs Great Communication
Cal and Cathy welcome Kelly Mack to the podcast for a discussion about living with a disability, and how healthcare workers can best support their clients who are living with a disability. And, of course, some talk about the mistakes humans and healthcare workers make. Plus, one of the best public transport stories we've ever heard. RESOURCES:Ableism 101: First Language: National Network: Accessible Healthcare,health%20care%20services%20and%20facilities. CMS: Improving Access to Care for People with Disabilities How to make healthcare accessible for all: Council on Disability Bioethics Report Series: of Justice, Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights Section: This webpage provides information on how DOJ works to achieve equal opportunity for people with disabilities by implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). At the bottom of their home page, you will find a number of resources about the ADA coupon code "MTWB" at for 25% off class of your choice. About Our Guest:Kelly Mack is a communications professional, specializing in health issues. In her spare time, she writes articles about living with rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and moderates for She has lived with RA since age two, resulting in significant physical disabilities and use of a motorized wheelchair. Kelly earned a MA in Communications from Johns Hopkins University and a BA in Psychology from Bryn Mawr College. You can find Kelly on Twitter @MsKellyM and on LinkedIn at
Sep 26
49 min
Episode 24: Tight, Loose, and the Future of Massage
Cal and Cathy welcome Michele Gelfand, author of Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World (, for a discussion about the culture of the massage profession, and how an understanding of tight and loose cultures can lead to a better understanding of ourselves and our fellow practitioners.Take Michele's tight/loose mindset quiz here: Michele's book, Rule Makers, Rule Breakers, here: promo code"MTWB" at for 25% off any course you choose. Healwell's first ever Love Run is this October. Join us to run/hike/walk/skate/grand jete 10K during the week of October 25-31and help us create a world where people are the most important thing. Learn more/sign up here: our guest:Dr. Michele Gelfand ( is a Distinguished University Professor at the University of Maryland, College Park. Gelfand uses field, experimental, computational, and neuroscience methods to understand the evolution of culture--as well as its multilevel consequences for human groups. Her work has been cited over 20,000 times and has been featured in the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, National Public Radio, Voice of America, Fox News, NBC News, ABC News, The Economist, De Standard, among other outlets. She is the author of Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire the World (Scribner, 2018.) A native New Yorker, Michele currently lives in University Park, Maryland with her husband, two daughters, and her dog, Pepper.
Sep 19
45 min
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