This time we are talking to Kate Pakenham, an independent producer with a passion for theatre, and a drive to make work with a strong social purpose. We learn how each show can be compared to a mini start-up, and how producing, even when you can line some things up, is always a leap of faith. We discover that a trip to Pret can be surprisingly lucrative, but also that where and who the money comes from can be just as important as the money itself. We hear about when to be in the room, when not to be, and a sage piece of parental advice; when in doubt, make people tea.