Show notes
Can an AI do the right thing for the wrong reason? Tim Scarfe speaks with Apollo Research’s Alexander Meinke, Axel Højmark and Jérémy Scheurer about Measuring Reward-Seeking via Contrastive Belief Updates, their new research with OpenAI.The panel asks how models infer what graders reward, why good behaviour can come from the wrong reason, and whether that difference can be measured. The conversation moves through promise-breaking, grader awareness, reward hacking, scheming, opaque reasoning and corrigibility, then turns to a detailed walkthrough of the contrastive-belief method and what its results do and do not show. The o3 results discussed here concern an intermediate checkpoint without safety training.This episode was made in partnership with Apollo Research. MLST retained full editorial control.ReferenceApollo Research: https://www.apolloresearch.ai/---TIMESTAMPS:00:00:00 Cold Open00:02:12 Right Things, Wrong Reasons00:12:47 Grader Awareness00:26:22 Legibility00:32:35 What To Call It00:35:58 Intelligence, Agency, Anthropomorphism00:45:16 Apollo’s Mission00:48:54 The End of the Exponential00:55:45 The Paper01:16:34 Closing Reflection---REFERENCES:tool:[00:00:08] Claude Fablehttps://www.anthropic.com/claude/fable[00:12:50] AlphaGo Zerohttps://deepmind.google/blog/alphago-zero-starting-from-scratch/[00:44:30] AlphaFold 3https://deepmind.google/science/alphafold/paper:[00:01:02] Measuring Reward-Seeking via Contrastive Belief Updateshttps://arxiv.org/abs/2607.18966[00:16:19] Natural Language Autoencoders Produce Unsupervised Explanations of LLM Activationshttps://transformer-circuits.pub/2026/nla/[00:26:48] Stress Testing Deliberative Alignment for Anti-Scheming Traininghttps://arxiv.org/abs/2509.15541[00:35:33] Shortcut learning in deep neural networkshttps://arxiv.org/abs/2004.07780[00:53:49] Measuring AI Ability to Complete Long Software Taskshttps://arxiv.org/abs/2503.14499[00:59:52] Modifying LLM Beliefs with Synthetic Document Finetuninghttps://alignment.anthropic.com/2025/modifying-beliefs-via-sdf/[01:10:44] Alignment Faking in Large Language Modelshttps://arxiv.org/abs/2412.14093[01:13:55] Natural Emergent Misalignment from Reward Hackinghttps://www.anthropic.com/research/emergent-misalignment-reward-hackingother:[00:10:14] We Need a Science of Scheminghttps://www.apolloresearch.ai/science/science-of-scheming/[00:32:56] CoastRunners reward hacking examplehttps://deepmind.google/blog/specification-gaming-the-flip-side-of-ai-ingenuity/organization:[01:06:07] Redwood Researchhttps://www.redwoodresearch.org/---ReScript: https://app.rescript.info/share/718ab68e18cfa3b9b800da6b3290fd42
