What happens when a PhD who studies color science sits down and reveals why the material you picked never looks right once it's installed—and why the answer has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with the light?In this episode of LytePOD, host Sam Koerbel sits down with Tony Esposito, a color science researcher and co-chair of the IES Color Committee, for a rare, unfiltered conversation about what the lighting industry gets wrong about color—and why the metrics we've relied on for decades are failing designers, manufacturers, and the people who live and work in the spaces we create. This isn't a conversation about fixtures or photometrics. It's a deeply technical yet profoundly human look at how light shapes color perception, why CRI isn't enough anymore, and why TM30 might be the most important tool lighting designers aren't using yet.💡 Key topics explored:• Why lighting impacts color perception—and why the material you select under one light source won't look the same under another• How preference isn't personal opinion like cake flavors—it's scientifically measurable, repeatable, and likely biological• Why CRI only tells you how close a light source is to the reference illuminant—not whether it's good, preferred, or optimized• The difference between fidelity, preference, and vividness—and why TM30 gives designers the vocabulary to communicate all three• How TM30's 99 color samples and four key metrics (RF, RG, red fidelity, red chroma) predict visual outcomes CRI can't• Why the Annex E system simplifies TM30 by letting designers specify design intent (P, V, or F) and priority level (1, 2, or 3)• Why manufacturers don't need new equipment—they already have the spectral data required to calculate TM30• How interior designers and lighting designers should collaborate earlier to ensure finishes are selected under the right light• Why experiential learning—seeing light sources side by side—is the only way to truly understand what TM30 can doWhether you're a designer frustrated by materials that don't look right on site, a manufacturer wondering if TM30 is worth the effort, or anyone curious about why light matters more than you think—this conversation offers a rare, honest look at the science, the metrics, and the future of color in lighting design.Listen now to discover why great lighting isn't about chasing CRI—it's about understanding color, optimizing for humans, and using the right tools to predict what people will actually prefer.❤️ Big appreciation for the partners who support this work and trust the vision. They believe in thoughtful conversations, strong community, and letting designers' voices lead. Grateful to build this together.1️⃣ Nightingale - https://watch.lytei.com/nightingale2️⃣ Kelvix - https://watch.lytei.com/Kelvix3️⃣ LEDflex - https://watch.lytei.com/LEDFLEX4️⃣ Diode LED - https://watch.lytei.com/diode5️⃣ Targetti USA - https://bit.ly/targettiusaChapters