Episode recap Don’t forget to subscribe to my Substack for exclusive access to tools, action plans, long-form articles, book content, and coaching resources to level up your leadership! Subscribe here. In this episode, Marcel interviewed Frank Danna and Chris Pitre, co-authors of "Love as a Change Strategy," discussing their book's themes and their experience at Softway, a technology company that transformed from a toxic culture to a human-centered organization. The conversation explored how embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, and practicing empathetic curiosity can lead to successful organizational change. Frank and Chris shared personal stories about their own transformation journeys and how they apply these principles at Softway. They discussed the importance of leaders modeling change behavior and the role of AI in enhancing human connection at work. The authors emphasized that change should be led, not managed, and highlighted the need for leaders to be intentional with their words and actions.  Guest Bio Chris Pitre is Vice President at both Culture+ and Softway. Chris has spent his career helping companies reimagine how they work, focusing on how they treat their people and communicate. Frank Danna serves as the Marketing Director at Softway and is the Co-Founder of Culture+, where he helps leaders transform their leadership through love, empathy, and behavior-based change.  Quotes: Chris Pitre: “Without a positive or strong culture, it's actually harder to bounce back. Adversity becomes that much scarier and that much more formidable.” Chris Pitre: “If you are a leader who is about to implement change and you're not uncomfortable, that should be a scary thing.” Frank Danna: “If you want to change, discomfort is the solution.” Chris Pitre: “I truly believe that comfort is a privilege and change, and so if you are comfortable, that means that everybody else is paying for your comfort, and likely you are someone who is probably oppressing the team.” Chris Pitre: “You get to decide at a certain point in your career who you will become: are you the boss that leaves a mark or a scar?”   Takeaways: Real, sustainable change fails when it’s treated as a technical process instead of a deeply human, emotional experience. The six principles of change—embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, practicing empathetic curiosity, wielding your influence, experimenting, and being effective—act as a flexible “middle layer” between rigid processes and long-term behavior change. Leaders themselves are often the biggest blockers of transformation when they cling to titles, certainty, and comfort while expecting others to do the hard changing. Resistance to change is frequently a signal that people feel unheard, and genuine empathetic curiosity can turn resistors into powerful champions. AI, when introduced from a humane, people-first lens, can remove transactional work and actually create more room for empathy, collaboration, and truly human leadership.   Timestamps: