APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community.Over the past few years, a series of popular uprisings across the world have been described by mainstream media as “Gen-Z Uprisings” – movements led by young people and described in western media as generally being against government corruption. These movements have been most notably visible in our own media due to their use of technology, including platforms like Discord and TikTok, and internationally consistent adoption of pop culture symbolism, like the flag of the “straw hat pirates,” a black flag depicting a grinning jolly roger wearing a straw hat. The flag is the banner of the protagonists of the long-running hit anime series One Piece whose adventures often find them coming to the defense of marginalized communities around their world.But these movements didn’t come out of nowhere (or the internet for that matter). Understanding their origins – and the elections that have resulted from their successes – can shed light both onto the international struggle against authoritarianism and the challenges we face building an alternative. In this episode we are looking at two countries, Nepal and Bangladesh, where popular uprisings in the summer of 2024 and fall of 2025 have led to elections this year.In this episode, we are joined by two US based organizers, Sharmin Hossain and Samir Shrestha, whose work as part of South Asian diasporas has rooted them in movement work here in the US while maintaining relationships and solidarity abroad.Sharmin Hossain is a Bangladeshi Muslim organizer from Queens, New York, who is currently the Organizing Director for 18 Million Rising. To learn more about 18 Million Rising, check out their site at www.18millionrising.org. Follow Sharmin on all platforms at @sharminultraSamir Shrestha belongs to the indigenous Newari tribe of Nepal, where he was born. He has spent the last 18 years involved in movement work here in the US. To learn more about The Ruckus Society and request a training, visit: www.ruckus.org/training-action-support/training-requests/To learn more about Convergence Magazine and the Block and Build Podcast, follow them at @_convergencemag and @blockandbuildpod. Check out Covergence’s work at www.convergencemag.com.TranscriptSwati Rayasam: [Block and Build is creating a roadmap for the movement that’s working to block the impacts of [On this episode, Cayden Mak, podcast host and editor-in-chief of Convergence, is joined by Samir Shrestha and Sharmin Hossain, two US-based organizers from the South Asian diaspora, Nepal and Bangladesh respectively. Sharmin and Samir will talk about the history and continued struggles of the international Gen Z uprisings, which have only really made a blip in Western media coverage.They’ll discuss the history of those movements and the political conditions which created them, as well as help us understand how Americans can be in meaningful solidarity with people’s movements abroad. Without further ado, I’ll hand it over to Cayden.Cayden: Over the past few years, a series of popular uprisings across the world have been described by mainstream media as the Gen Z uprisings, movements led by young people and described in Western media as [These movements have been most notably visible in our own media due to their use of technology, including platforms like Discord and TikTok, and internationally consistent adoption of pop culture symbolism. but these movements didn’t come out of nowhere, or out of just the internet, for that matter. Understanding their origins and the elections that have resulted from their successes can shed light both onto the international struggle against authoritarianism and the challenges that we face building an alternative.In this episode, we’re looking at two countries in particular, Nepal and Bangladesh, where popular uprisings in the summer of 2024 and fall of 2025 have led to elections this year. I was recently joined by two US-based organizers, Sharmin Hossain and Samir Shrestha, whose work as part of the South Asian diaspora has rooted them in movement work here in the US while maintaining relationships and solidarity abroad.Sharmin Hossain is a Bangladeshi Muslim organizer from Queens, New York, who’s currently the organizing director for 18 Million Rising. Sharmin, thanks so much for joining us today Sharmin: Thank you for having me. I love Convergence. Cayden: Thank you. [He spent the past 18 years involved in movement work here in the US, and Samir, it’s really good to see you this morning. Samir: So good to see you too, Cayden. Cayden: Well, to start us off, let’s try and set some contextSharmin. I’m wondering if you can give us kind of a quick gloss of the 2024 uprisings in Bangladesh, where Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and her party were ousted from power. What are the sort of themes of the protests, and then the way that the state responded, and where are we kind of now?Sharmin: Wow, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor to talk about my country and all the amazing things that happened, because I think the Global South really forges, like, new possibilities as far as, like, what we can do and, and consolidate as far as power goes. So today is actually March 26th, and it’s Bangladeshi Independence Day, coincidentally.Cayden: Happy independence Day. Sharmin: Happy Independence Day. I find it very serendipitous for us to delve into this layered and complex history, um, of the student movement. So [Nearly 32 million young people were actually out of the workforce, or education in a population of a country of 170 million. So that’s a pretty significant number. And so that issue was a focal point for widespread discontent in the country. In July of 2024, the High Court of Bangladesh actually reinstated a quota system for government jobs after an appeal was made when the then-ruling Hasina government abolished the quota system, um because in 2018 she faced a lot of pressure from student protesters.But this quota system is really interesting, and it represents a lot. It reserved 30% of government jobs for descendants of freedom fighters. And in Bangladeshi history, that’s a very complex and layered identity. Millions of our [And so for the Hasina government, the quota system was actually what she used to appoint a lot of her loyalists and her supporters to high levels of government, the military, and it basically created the political ecosystem for the Awami League, her party, to maintain dominance. And the Awami League actually was the party that once led the liberation struggle, and over the course of 15 years, we actually saw how much they consolidated power through political repression, the Digital Security Acts that was surveilling and targeting freedom of speech, as well as the corruption and fear that they [And these government jobs, like most of us, it represents many things. It represents the government’s responsibility to take care of poor people, um, economic and political opportunity, and it also represents, like, the corruption and the authoritarian rule of the Awami League, and how they were rigging elections, and how the court systems, and even entrance exams for the Bangladeshi civil service, were actually regularly leaked and compromised.And so -within that background, that’s when you have the Students Against Discrimination movement take the streets in July demanding fair access to government jobs. And things actually got violent really fast. Within seven days, nearly 174 people were murdered, and thousands were injured. There was an indefinite curfew, social media blackouts, and then a military occupation with shoot on sight orders.And of course, the bullets that were raining upon, Bangladeshis were US, [And so there’s already this, like, vigilante ecosystem that exists within the campuses that was weaponized during the student protests. And then you have a climax moment on July 14th. Sheikh Hasina went on television accusing the students of being Razakars, and Razakars are collaborators of the Pakistani army, and it’s a very derogatory term in Bangladesh, and it refers to people who support the Pakistani military’s operation to suppress the Bangladeshi Liberation War.They’re also accused of heinous crimes. And so when students were accused of being Razakars, it, like, [There’s just so much violence happening on the ground. And so on that National Day of Action, July 15th, clashes happen. Multiple deaths are live-streamed, and one of them, Abu Sayeed, he was a university student at Rangpur University in northwest Bangladesh, really galvanized the country because we watched this student, who is not armed, surrender and get sh- shot, by the Bangladeshi police.And we know what these spontaneous moments of violence do to the public, right? It usually always sets fire to another wave of social protests and action. And so then millions start marching to Sheikh Hasina’s home, and [And they demand her resignation. And on August 5th, within 36 days of the movement, she resigns and flees to India, our neighboring country. Over 1,400 people have been killed, under her brutal repression. And so that’s some of the background of the student movement, and we can talk more about some of the dynamics of it.Cayden: Yeah, that’s super helpful, and I think reflecting on the ways in which also the sort of, like, escalation on the part of the government is, I think, a really important story here, for sure. Samir, I’ll also now turn it to you. What should our listeners know about last fall’s uprisings in Nepal, which also ousted the sitting government of, K.P. Oli and his, his party and how they led to [Samir: Thanks, Cayden, and Happy Independence Day to you, Sharmin. I am somebody who was born and raised in Nepal, and am spending most of my life in the diaspora now, and I wanna name the limitations of, uh, my understanding of what’s going on in Nepal because of me not being on the ground organizing with the masses.And, I wanna honor the work that’s been happening in Nepal, on the groundone of the big things that, that’s really n- is important to name is, like, it’s only been 20 years since we abolished monarchy. Uh- Mm-hmm. … uh, 2006, right? That is a big thing for us to understand. And the party that was in power, and has been in power since, was the party that has been organizing our movements, and that is the organized left in Nepal, and, like, really betrayed our people once we, once they got into power, right?And, like, started kind of veering towards the right once they got in power. So 20 years later The economic conditions of our people on the ground are really dire. There’s no jobs available. People are migrating. A lot of our folks, one of the biggest source of economy and source of money for our, [So one- that’s one of the big things that’s also been informing,, lot of the consciousness of the- our young people in Nepal, right? And then one of the other things that’s named really important is, so since the election, since 2006, the Communist Party, the Congress Party, and the Maoist Party have been, they’re the only ones who have been in power for the last 20 years, and these are all old upper caste men, even though they were the ones who were leading the movement and were organizing at left.But these were s- the representation and the leaders in these parties were all upper caste, caste Arya people, which is the dominant caste in Nepal, right? And that’s a very important layer to name. And that really informed, I think, a lot of the ways they showed up after we won. And, and that’s one, one big question that we always have in the left, right?What do we do after we- Yeah … abolish monarchy? What do we do after we win? And we haven’t figured that out too, as does any other movements, right? And 20 years later, the frustration is on the very high, against the status quo. And then we, and there [And, like, this one, uh, thing started trending the young people started organizing around Nepo babies. There’s like, you know, “Yeah, you don’t have access to we do, you’re gonna take our access away from social media while your kids, and people who have connections to you and have, access to you are just posting about the life, the lavish life they’re living abroad and in my homelands,” right?So that’s one of the places where it started. And once that started, there was online campaign. And there was already conversations around banning social media in Nepal, and they were- Hmm … finding, like, different ways around it, and that really escalated the way people really responded to the situation, is like once they started organizing around Nepo babies and how they were, like, getting momentum around that, that’s when exactly the social media ban went into effect, right?And that’s a really important name because, like, one of the biggest pet peeves for me as a diaspora person has been this idea of people only started the uprising and took the streets because of the social media ban. [That was just the, just the point of escalation, right? So fast-forward, people started organizing on Discord. Uh, also the irony of it is that was one of the apps that was banned, uh, in Nepal as, uh… And people started organizing in Discord. And also wanna name the reality of, like, the only people who had access to Discord are also, like, privileged folks like us- Surelike younger, upper middle class people. So we were not really getting folks from outside Kathmandu and from our villages and from rural areas, right? So they didn’t really have any say in what the organizing would look like. So it happened very, organically, very decentralized. So there was a call for people to show up at Maitighar which has been a popular protest space in Nepal, for a very long time.And it was like at the, at the center of Kathmandu. So there was a call out september 8. A lot of folks came out, and then people from outside Kathmandu that couldn’t make it to Kathmandu started coming in big numbers. And the goal of the protest was peaceful protest, right?[So fast-forward, that led to 19 deaths on the first day of the protest, which led to the home minister resigning, at the end of the day. But Oli, the prime minister, is so arrogant and really didn’t figure out the power of young people and, like, how they could keep mobilizing and organizing.He decided to just downplay them and say, “I’m not resigning,” which led to more heightened escalated protests the second day, where people started marching to the parliament buildings and started burning down buildings. And people started, people got to a lot of, like, the political parties’ political party leader home and started burning them, and, really started, holding them accountable.And also , there was videos of clips of, like, people torching into people’s homes and, like, [So fast-forward, more escalation led to, like, 52 more deaths, and the Oli party finally decided to resign at the end of that night, and that’s, that’s when curfew was impo- imposed by, the army. So that led to, like, a total of 72 deaths. I wanna name, like, in just the two days of mobilization, two days of organizing, because sometimes in the left we don’t understand.We talk about the similarities of our struggles but we don’t really talk about the conditions that led to it and, like, the level for the risk that our folks leveraged, to be able to topple the government, right? So I just wanna name that out loud and honor that part of, like, how the, how people, like, really leveraged risk.And then fast-forward, people started organizing. The conversation kept going on on Discord, and then there was, like, a town hall style meetings happening on Discord where, like, I think 7 to 8,000 people were on it. And also I still wanna name again, the people who didn’t have access to the internet and [And decided Susila Karki, who was a chief justice 10 years ago, a woman, who also joined protesters during the first day of them mobilizing in the street. They decided, they voted, to hold her as the interim prime minister for now. And There was also one other layer is like a lot of people wanted Balen Sah, who is our prime minister now, but constitutionally if he was part of the interim government, he wouldn’t be able to run for prime minister. So that was like a strategic decision that, uh, like he made, and the movement made around not electing him as part of the interim government. So one of the big responsibilities of the interim government was to hold elections in six months, which honestly I was not very- Cayden: That’s hugely ambitious.Samir: It is hugely ambitious, right? And also the reality is it happened, and also there are questions around, yeah, were we able to hold elections in a way where everybody had access to it, right? And that is a big question that I’m still asking, I’m still sitting with. But there were like record numbers that showed up to the polls, but [And fast-forward now, the Rastriya Swatantra Party which emerged at like a, at a very popular party in 2022, won with majority. And we just sworn in our new Prime Minister Balen Sah yesterday, we can talk about more later.Cayden: Well, thank you for summing up, both of you for summing up- Pretty long, complex histories fairly quickly for us.I’ve been thinking about the way that, like, Western media largely reports on these kinds of uprisings as if they come out of nowhere. And, like, we know as movement people that rarely, if ever, like, do they truly come out of nowhere.So, like, yeah, I wanna dig into what the longer arc of these stories really is. And I, I really wanna talk about, I guess, like, the specific texture in both Bangladesh and Nepal about how these protest movements position themselves against the government, against, like, other social forces, and, like, how kind of, like, other social phenomena acted on and shaped [Sharmin: I love that question ’cause it allows us to see, like, also the rich history of our, like, respective areas, and how much, like, young people have always been at the forefront of so many revolutionary struggles. And we often, um, you know, uh, post social media era like to make generalizations that this never existed before.But actually, you know, in Bangladesh, students are the most incredibly organized force that has shaped much of our history since 1947. The 1969 uprisings against Ayub Khan, the 1971 Liberation War, and then the , 1987 protests against the military dictator Ershad. And then later, our return to democratic governance in 1990 and the road safety protests of 2018, which actually laid the groundwork for so much of the student, frustration with the government not being able to keep students safe because of road safety issues and [And so the campus has always been a key space for the pulse of the nation. But it’s also a key space for goons and vigilante groups to organize their forces. So the Bangladesh Awami League has their faction, the Chhatra League, and then there’s, you know, the Jamaat-e-Islami, which is the right-wing Islamist group of Bangladesh that has been growing, has their faction, the Chhatra Shibir.And then the Bangladesh Nationalist Party, which, you know, has been in opposition to the Awami League, also has their goons on campuses. And so one of the major, trends you’ll see during these moments is how these factions are actually weaponized to make sure that the violent state apparatus is deployed within public spaces.And, you know, you asked about, like, missteps and some of the things that political formations, might forget to plan for or think [And you notice quickly the contradictions of their formation. All the women leaders were either asked to leave or they left because of what an undemocratic, unfeminist space it was. And then you noticed quickly that the National Citizen Party started allying itself with the right-wing forces to gain a populist base.And that, to me, is the, one of the biggest contradictions of what do leftists do when we gain power? And also, like, the sober conversation is, are these leaders leftists? Or did- Cayden: Yeah, were they ever? Were they ever? Sharmin: Or did we project our leftist dreams onto them and I think one of the things that [Mm-hmm. That these political for- formations actually don’t have a coherent theory of change when they’re contesting for power. And so you notice quickly the National Citizens Party was very reactionary, and it was very anti-fascist by, their vernacular, but what anti-fascism meant was that we hate the Awami League, we’re gonna ban the Awami League, and the Awami League is no longer going to exist.And then we’re- Yes … gonna fight for Sheikh Hasina to be hanged, right? And so that became their populist slogan. Cayden: Hmm. Sharmin: And so, you know, there is no left force in Bangladesh, and that’s something that we have to name, that for sure there are garment workers that are organizing a party. There’s a communist league that does not actually grow in their base.Um- Hmm … and that is why coming out of [Um, and you know, it was surprising, Cayden, I’ll just say, like, after the, the NCP was getting ready for elections that just happened this past February, they joined a coalition with the largest Islamist force of Bangladesh, and this is such a misstep, right? To join forces. W- your enemy of your enemy is not your friend, right?Like, wh- where, like, where, when has that gotten us anywhere? It falls into the traps of organizing without a clear, coherent ideology, and then the post-uprising impact is weakened. And so a lot of that groundwork of, like, theoretical work, we actually have to do that to be able to be ready for fights that take power in the way that [Cayden: That feels like such an important lesson that we need to learn, unfortunately, over and over again, and I feel like this theme of, the enemy of my enemy is sometimes still my enemy has been coming up on this show a lot lately. That like, it, I, uh, you know, we see it happening in our movement politics here too, especially in, in this sort of moment of authoritarian retrenchment in our own government, that like, there are, there are challenges around that, and there’s like ways that I think, yeah, it makes sense that it feels good in the moment to be like, “Yeah, there’s more of us than there are of them.”But it’s like, well, who, who are us? Like, what is the us that we’re talking about? Samir, I will pass it to you to talk about, I guess, some of the texture that we should know about the protest movement in Nepal, and like what are the ways that, other social forces also outside the state have shaped the way that the protests have played out there.Samir: I was listening to Sharmin, and I was like, “Oh, there’s so many similarities,” [He was part of , like the first people’s movement struggles, uh, that happened in the ’90s that got rid of absolute monarchy. He was the face of the Communist Party. He did take up arms, right? So all of the tools that our revolutionary histories have used to, find liberation, right?So he used a diversity of tactics. Like, he started as somebody who believed in picking up arms. And then he led a people’s movement in the ’90s of, like with other political parties to get rid of the Panchayat system, which was a system of absolute monarchy and where all the political parties were dissolved right by the king from the 1960 to 1990, right?But one of the big things that I think we didn’t think about when our movements were being led, when our movement ancestors were organizing and like really thinking about is like what does identity mean for our movements. There’s political forces, [Which is true, and we need to name that layer, too. And I think one of the things that we’re missing in this moment right now is we have been so, so frustrated by the last 20 years of governance by these forces. We wanna forget the political history of how we got here, right? Mm-hmm. And that has been one of my big critique of the young people in Nepal, right?And for me, I also think about as somebody who’s getting older and also had access to my dad who was part of this movement, right? He was a big force as part of the Communist Party, and now he’s heavily traumatized because of the way he got betrayed by his comrades, right?And I think one of the forces I was talking about identity is, like, all of these political forces were led by upper caste Brahmin men, and there was no indigenous representation. So finally, the 1990, we were able to get rid of absolute [In 2006, we finally were able to get rid of monarchy, but 2006 to 2014 was a struggle to, like, really, draft a new constitution for us, where we made some progress and where we also did some things where it took us back around, like, women’s rights, right?And so there was a big feminist movement that really created, like, organizing conditions of 2026 in so many ways, right? And one of the things that we were seeing during the last 20 years is what’s happening is all the communist parties, the people who led our movements and uprisings were veering towards the right, right?Hmm. Because they consolidated more power, like, you know, exactly what happened with, uh, Bangladesh. They consolidated more power where, you know, they could stay in power [But once we won and they got, the Communist Party got into power, they started, like, pushing policies that would not benefit indigenous peoples, right? And then one of the big things that Nepal wanted is federalism in terms of, like, one of the big critiques of Nepal has been the government is so centralized in Kathmandu.Other people outside of Kathmandu really don’t get to take part in politics. And, so federalism was one of the big things that we pushed for, right? At Indigenous Struggles, that is the one thing that we pushed for so that we can govern our homelands, and that was the one thing that Oli was, like, against too, and that was also one of the reasons why he started becoming less and less popular, right?But one of the things that’s 2026 was, I think it’s also really important to understand, is the 2026 uprisings were led by youth who I believe, I dare to say, didn’t have, the full understanding, the political understanding of our political histories in that way. And there’s this, like, disconnect in terms of, like…it’s hard for me to bridge the 100 years of left in Nepal [And that is a big question we still don’t, we don’t have answers to, right? The movement histories and, you know, the last 20 years has been very traumatizing, but there’s also so many lessons and so many beautiful things that happened during the organizing, right?So how do we make those connections? How do we ask those questions? How do we talk to this feminist group? How do we talk to, like, workers, right? We need to figure that out. And I think one of the big things, like Sharmin talked about too, is like the student protest student movements were a big part of how we got liberation in Nepal, and the student movements are like directly connected to political parties because they have the student wing.But that also doesn’t mean they are not organized. Yes, they were organized, and they really figured it out, but they have gotten corrupt. There’s goons there, there’s only men there. [And that is a big question. And I haven’t heard anything, and I’m very curious what’s gonna happen on that, and I’ve been sitting with that a lot, too. Cayden: Yeah. No, I, I mean, I feel like thinking about the challenges in remembering and then sometimes, like, having movement history misremembered to us by people with motivations.I can see how in that way for these young people who are getting organized, who are, like, trying to figure out what they want from the government in the future . there’s some real, delicate territory for them to negotiate around, like, understanding themselves in a lot of ways as political and historic actors, which is really interesting.Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and [email protected]. Cayden: One of the other trends that [And if there’s stuff that you’ve been seeing in the like, interim government moments that you’re like, “Oh, this is something to watch out for.” Like, “This is something that we can draw some lessons from.” Sharmin: Yeah. Well, in Bangladesh we had a United States favorite Nobel Laureate, you know, Muhammad Yunus- Mm-hmmas our interim government. And, and I think what’s so fascinating is that, you know, he is the world’s sweetheart because he created [And so I think what’s very fascinating about having such a pro-capitalist, figure that is, a sweetheart of empire, it spoke to his legacy in office, you know? During his time, he also signed one of the most devastating US-Bangladesh trade agreements with Trump- Hmm … which actually, further isolates China from the Bangladeshi trade market and, forces Bangladesh to do all of our trade deals with the US.And it’s a non-binding agreement. And so it is, deeply unlawful and also devastating to the economy of this area of Southeast Asia that actually needs China as, an ally, as a country that has, contributed a lot to the development of [And similar to what, Samir was saying, right? Women’s rights just are the first thing that these governments throw under the busand that- women’s commission report that was looking to really examine land laws and inheritance laws and and the rights of women economically like actually triggered one of the largest anti-feminist rallies in the country’s history- Wow … where millions, millions of Jamaat-e-Islami men and their supporters took the streets in [Cayden: No … Sharmin: even though the Western media was, like, so excited for this revolution, right? You know, on the ground too, you have those people that are like, “This is a CIA-backed, like, uprising,” right? And then on the ground you see, like, oh yeah, people actually don’t want to touch the complexities of this country because it is layered within, like, religious nationalisms- Mm-hmmethnic nationalisms, and caste. And so in my experience, I would just say that people know very little of the political forces within this, greater West Asian political landscape and how it connects to US imperialism here and abroad, you know? Pakistan was once the CIA’s closest ally in the Cold War, and they continue to be during the war on terror right now, right?Mm-hmm. The United States provided Pakistan with military, diplomatic, and economic support because a [Cayden: Hmm. Sharmin: And then I’ll say at the same time, on the ground, there were dozens of reports of mobs that were attacking temples and Hindu leaders.Hindus are a minority in Bangladesh that have been historically, marginalized, and these contradictions were, were getting highlighted, right? Because that violence was eerily similar, right? The partition of South Asia- Yeah … Cayden: excluded Sharmin: Hindu-Muslim communalism, and there were tensions and divides that fell across class lines.And for Western and, hegemonic media outlets, this looked like, oh, the Muslims are attacking the Hindus again. Samir: Right. Sharmin: And so for me, like, the being able to reckon Islamophobia, communal violence, identity and class politics, but also the way nationalism operates in South Asia, it, it’s a tricky dance [Mm-hmm. And within that, you know, we have Bangladesh joining the PLO in Lebanon to fight on behalf of Palestinian liberation. We have the fact that the country’s actually i- inception was based on a socialist vision, right? And it’s now one of the fastest-growing economies in the world with the fast fashion garment industry that’s also ravaged by climate crisis and mass displacement.And so for me, it always just comes back to anti-war and anti-imperialism, like all the nodes of my brain, because I’m like, “Here’s this US global death-making machine and this defense industry that sells tear gas shells to my country and [And so the neoliberalization of our campuses and what these students are facing is because of the war economy. And so, so I just, like, zoom out in those moments, and I’m like, “Oh, this, this feels very much so like Cold War politics and the aftermath.” Cayden: Yeah, like the politics of the Cold War have just simply never left us.Like, they’re still here, and it’s like we’ve sort of swapped in China as the big bad in a lot of ways. Sharmin: Right. Cayden: Samir, I wonder if there’s, stuff that you’ve been seeing about the interim government in Nepal that you think are worth our sort of examination as kind of like lessons that we can draw from what happens after the protest, and yeah, like how that has been part of the electoral moment also we’re in in Nepal right now.Samir: Yeah, [And the Western media has only focused on Balen Saha, this, quote-unquote, “rapper,” this charismatic guy who is gonna, who’s 35 years old and is gonna lead. And then like Sushila Karki, I mean, one of the big things that everybody is like, “Oh, she’s the first woman prime minister of Nepal, and what does that mean for us?”And, you know, this identity politics of like, “Oh, we finally got a woman president.” And for us it’s like when we talk about it, that’s the only thing we see in the discourse. But the reality is she was also a woman prime minister in an interim government that she knew was gonna last for six months, right?And also one of the things that a lot of people don’t think about and realize is like the youth really didn’t know who she was. And I think that’s one of the big things that Sarmin talked about too, is like how do our youth have the consciousness? And do we have a left, social movement left, that’s actually supporting them to really understand, you know, the conditions [But one of the big popularities about her was, like, she was not a career, jurist as she was appointed, was a lawyer that was appointed to the Supreme Court in 2009 by the Judicial Council, and she had this reputation of pushing back against some of the political parties and some of the establishments in that time.So that was, like, one of the big things that really lured our folks, there was this one interview of her that went really viral about how she talks about, you know, establishment parties and how she challenged, some of the status quo while she was… Because a lot of times what happens with some of these appointments are people who are loyal to the to the parties, right? That was the one big thing that really attracted a lot of our young folks, to mobilize around her being the prime minister. And it’s just, like, a lot of unknowns around, like, we still don’t know because with the older parties, it was very clear to us that the Communist Party was, like, more loyal to China, right?And the Congress party was more loyal to India. And then one of the things a lot that we don’t see in the discourse even in left spaces, right? Even [And that we don’t wanna name that layer because in the US, as, us being in the belly of the beast, our only responsibility is to fight US imperialism. And then for me, as somebody from the Global South, I understand that how that impacts our movement and how that is dangerous and harmful to our people in our, back in our homeland.Because China and India are bullying Nepal in a lot of different ways politically, right? Because nothing happens in Nepal without the consent of India and China, right? And India obviously has more power, and they’re, like, fighting over that power in Nepal right now.And the other thing that I wanted to name is, I was hoping K.P. Oli, during our interim prime ministership, during that interim government, would be held accountable, which didn’t happen. And we’re not talking about that, right? And also she [Karki] had a lot of limitations, and we still are figuring out what, like, what kind of power she held, right? But the hope was for me was, like, that she would hold the people who were responsible for our people’s deaths accountable during the six months she was there, which [And that’s one of the things that hasn’t been talked about, and I think that was a big political opportunity for her to do some of that work to push K.P. Oli out of power because he, after doing all of this, was still able to contest the elections and lost really badly. But one of the things for me, the inspiration was, like, how Sheikh Hasina was pushed out of the country, right?Like, that was one of the hopes and dreams, and that didn’t really happen, during this interim government. Cayden: Hmm. That’s interesting that there’s, like, a possibility that he might be back. Well, I wanna turn a little bit to thinking about this history that’s been unfolding and, like, what it is like to be observing, talking to comrades and loved ones as an organizer who’s based here in the US as part of your diasporic community.One of the things I think a lot about is, like- When we talk about solidarity with people’s movements internationally in the US, sometimes we forget that, like, people from those diasporas are our comrades. They are here. And that we have a lot to, [What has it been like watching the sort of, like, social movements in Bangladesh and Nepal respectively, and what has it been like to have that consciousness as an organizer here in the US dealing with all of the political stuff that we’ve been dealing with here?Samir: I love that you asked that question, Cayden, and also, like, yes, I just wanna start with, like, this layer of like, oh, yes, we have comrades here who are from these diasporic communities who actually can inform us in this.And to add another layer to that, even with, with my, you know, my history of being born and raised in Nepal and, like, being connected to our movements there and, like, living here for the last 20 years now, right? That also creates another layer where I don’t have access to everything, and that also creates a layer of, like, that I don’t have to know everything, right?And I wish our left- Mm-hmm … Western left understood that layer sometimes because – In our movements, I’m gonna go be a little– I’m gonna little shit about our movements here, you know? Because one of the things that happens is, like, the romanticization of what’s going on in our homelands without understanding, and this idea- Mm-hmmof, like-like, we have to know the answers to every… It’s okay to not have answers. I think that’s a big thing that I reflect on a lot as somebody here, [So I think that’s one of the big things. I think it’s okay to know that. I think the second thing for me as somebody in the diaspora, it’s my role in the diaspora. It’s also what is my role in the diaspora to inform my comrades. If you’re an upper-caste person, it is your responsibility to name that in the movement spaces that you hold and name that layer- Mm … and inform people about that layer. I think about that a lot.I sit up, I sit with that and reflect on that a lot, and that really informs the way I show up as somebody in the diaspora. And my responsibility, one of the things that we saw when all of this was happening you know, the movements, the social movement left was so fast, got into this train of, like, it’s a Color Revolution [i.e., the revolution is backed by the US government/is a US-led intervention], as if our peoples don’t have the capacity to organize.Yes, there was infiltrations. Yes, India was involved. But yes, there was also uprising where 70 people died, right? So just, bringing it down to, like, it’s not really being complex and, like, [Because that, in that, when we’re doing that, we’re taking away, like, access from our people in terms of, like, how they are doing things. And also, like, really, I think invalidating the fact that our, the governments that was being oppressing against the uprisings are oppressive. So that just, like, invisibilizes, uh, what the state is doing, right?Because it is a Color Revolution, you know. The, it is not led by the people. We’re, there was even sign, things like they said, like, “Oh, there were signs in English.” Like, can you just think about, you know, the, the orientalist, uh, you know- Cayden: Yeah … Samir: orientalist way that you are thinking even as somebody who considers yourself a social movement left.So that’s, I think, one my, that, for me, that is a big responsibility. And- And that is where I can also make an impact as somebody in the diaspora. I am not on the ground, that is the reality of it, and knowing where I can make impact and how I can make impact, and knowing very clearly that I don’t have all the answers, and I’m not– I’m an outsider in so many…I go back home every time I go home for a couple of months, the way I show up in these movement spaces [“Samir, you don’t live here anymore.” He will remind me very clearly. He’s like, “You don’t live here anymore.” And you need to understand that, and that’s okay.” And he will ground me in that, and that really helps me in terms of thinking of how I wanna show up as a diasporic person. Cayden: Yeah. No, that’s, that’s really helpful, and I think that, like, this thing that you’re describing about the sort of like in some ways, like, healthy, but in other ways sort of, like, overblown skepticism that US observers can have about uprisings, revolutions in other countries just because, like…The, the word that came to mind as you were describing it was, like, infantilizing, right? That it’s, like, as if people can’t independently form their own political opinions without the intervention of the, like, global superpower is just sort of, like, baffling to me. You hit on something that, like, I think about a lot [Sharmin, I’m also interested to hear from you on this. Sharmin: Yeah. Yeah, similarly, I feel, I feel like there is this, like, uh, relationality that it’s pushing people that are here to really think about more clearly. I feel like some of the early ’70s through the ’90s was a very, like, symbolic type of solidarity that we had- Mm-hmmwhere, where, you know, we would do the cultural attire, the cultural associations, you know, the melas, which are, like, big fairs that we have in these hubs of, like, immigrant communities. And now I think the politics are coming back. Like, I think after the July uprising, [I wanna talk about the cultural and political organizations that run this local community.” And one thing that I really took back from the last two visits to Bangladesh is really learning the skills of talking to somebody who disagrees with me because- Cayden: Hmm … Sharmin: I think in the United States the left does not practice, being able to engage, talk, even, like, be in relationship with people that might be politically opposed to you.And so when I go to Bangladesh, I’m actually surrounded by a lot of homophobes. I’m surrounded by a lot of men who, like, support the Awami League, and I’ve had to kind of, like, sit in this in between of being like, “Oh, yeah, like, I actually have to learn how to debate better. I have to learn how to, like, you know, be that person that’s, like, holding humanity but also holding the, the critical left analysis that I, I believed in to be right because I [Right? And I know that, like, this is a hill that’s worth dying on. And I think with Mamdani’s win in, in New York, like, there’s so many examples of how that, like, South Asian left politic that’s actually talking about class exists- Mm-hmm. Cayden: Yeah … Sharmin: within the geography of our communities. And, you know, especially for, you know, Samir and I are, like, the minority South Asians, so we’re not the Indian upper caste.And so for us, we’re like, “This has always been the reality of our people.” They are working-class organizers. They’re people who know how to talk about the intricacies of domestic labor, about the unorganized labor forces, about the people that are left out of the political agenda of our government. And so for me, like, I really take some of the lessons that DRUM [ Desis Rising Up and Moving] is doing on the ground in New York around what it means to actually build a member base that’s rooted in relationship, but also towards a North Star.And that North Star, it looks a little socialist. It looks a little working class. It looks [But we are in this center-right populous moment that will require us to do cultural shift. It will require us to do that, like, slow work of tilling the land, like Ella Baker spade work. And you know, a comrade of mine, Nafiz, who’s a brilliant writer at Jamhor, when I was talking to him about processing the February elections, he was just like, “You know, I actually think, like, I’m seeing a lot of possibility right now because I saw what happened to Egypt after Tahrir Square, and I saw where Egypt went and what a military dictatorship did to that country.”And he was like, “And Bangladesh, that’s not what happened to us.” And, and he was like, “And this is important for us to really reckon with how… Not to [And so unless the left fills that gap, we are gonna see right-wing populism, and we’ve seen it within white supremacy here, but it translates to every Global South country, from Brazil to, you know, um, obviously South Asia. And so yeah, I just am trying to be more, like, relative in that way, where I’m like- Cayden: HmmSharmin: “Oh, we’re a lot more relative than we think we are.” Cayden: Yeah. That is such a good insight about, like, having to context switch Across geography, across political context, like builds a, like a really important muscle for us as organizers. This has been an absolutely fantastic [My one sort of like, well I have two outgoing questions and they’re sort of related to one another. One is thinking about like as a monolingual English speaker, as somebody who’s like in the US, I think one of the things that I’ve often felt a challenge around is like where do I look to for news, for updates, and for analysis about what’s going on in the Global South, especially for places where I have no cultural or language connection.And like when you’re assessing news and information that’s coming out about movement politics. What do you consider, what do you think about, what are the questions you ask yourself when you’re like seeing headlines, kinda day-to-day that you think would be useful for other folks to start thinking about?Sharmin: Yeah. I, I really think about, like, multiple nationalisms right now, that there’s, like, these competing forces of, like, who gets to tell the story. And I always, like to think about, like, how, uh, US [And I don’t like to think about it, but I, I’ve been looking at so much coverage that feels very much like, yikes, like what is going on, with our, like, news ecosystem? And unfortunately, I think we need to get back on Facebook. Like, I think that the fact that- … progressives and the left have left Facebook, like, I get it.Fuck Meta, and Facebook is the main place for so much like organizing. And we- Cayden: Contest every space. Sharmin: Get back on Facebook. Who cares if there are right-wing trolls on it? You we have to create alternative like information systems that are, like, really amplifying to these networks and groups of people that are getting inundated with that information.And I think we’re really lucky because there’s a lot of leftist South Asian publications now, Himal South Asian, Jumphore, you could become Patreon supporter and really be a part of these legacy, South Asian [They’re contending with the communist, like, legacies of our organizations. And so, I just really appreciate that they’re doing political analysis with politics and not just focusing on, like, symbolic forms of, like, political analysis. So shout-out to them and, and their hard work because yeah, they, they’re English media that is getting translated for this day and age, you know?Cayden: Yeah. I… It was really exciting to me to, like, do a lot of the sort of, like, background for this conversation and find, like, English language movement media coming out of South Asia. I was like, “This is so exciting.” Like, this is… I feel like in some ways the thing that they’re trying to do is, like they’re kind of our comrades- Mm-hmmin a sense, right? Like, they’re trying to do a similar thing to the thing that we’re trying to do at Convergence, and I was like, “Ooh, this is really cool. Like, I’m bookmarking this.” Yeah. So I don’t know. Samir, do you have, do you have other thoughts about, like, what things [Samir: Yeah, big ups Himal Magazine. I think that is a big source of information for me too. And also as somebody who struggles with reading Nepali now, which I’m very embarrassed of it’s really hard for me to get access. to. I have to sit with my dad to, like, really go through some of the news articles, which, you know, my dad gracefully agrees.Uh, I think one of the big things is, like, I do benefit a lot from his free labor. I’ll just name that on this podcast. But I think, and one of the things I would say is like- Thanks, Cayden: dad … Samir: really, like, figuring out, like, I don’t know, like, pushing through the binary of, like, what US imperialism means for Nepal and what also there’s, there could be other forms of imperialism that I named earlier, that Sharmin named too.And also right now, I think there’s a lot of unknowns for us too, right? We have this party that was not part of the political establishment that came into picture in 2024. So we are still grappling with the idea of, like, what does this mean for us? Who are they gonna be loyal to, and how does, what does this mean for geopolitics in Nepal, right?So we are still sitting with that question. And there is some clarity around, I think one of the things I would say is there’s a [Because for me, I think it’s really important the social movement left to understand because even my friend, my comrades are sending me, “Oh, this rapper is a prime minister now.” It’s somebody that I trust a lot, right? Yeah. And I have to do the work of like, “Hey, this person has this history of governing in this way when he became the mayor of Kathmandu, where he was against poor people,” right?He did some changes, structural changes that helped, upper middle class people. And using that as a way to, like, really assess what he’s gonna do for Nepal, and I’m actually skeptical, right? He is somebody from the Madhesi movement, which is a indigenous group that is very marginalized in Nepal, but he also comes from a very upper class background, right? And that’s also real. We have to name that. His party’s ideology is to push us away from federalism in some sense, right?And also the reality is they had a majority, they won a majority because we didn’t have a social movement left outside of political parties that would help us assess him, right? [And yeah, I will end it with, like, it’s okay to not have all the answers, and just, yeah, do some of that work of, like, reflecting on, like, asking yourself how you are taking in some of the information that you’re seeing. And obviously, Himal Magazine is a big source, and one of the Substacks that I would highly recommend too is, I think we could put it in the links later, it’s called Kalam Weekly, which is on Substack. I have some critiques of their writing too, but that’s really been helping me understand what’s going on in Nepal right now. Cayden: You both have been so incredibly generous with your time, and this has been such a rich conversation.I don’t know if there are places also where if our listeners want to follow your work, I don’t know, if there’s organizations or places where you are publishing thoughts, either your own or organizationally that you wanna share. Sharmin, is there any place people can find you online?Sharmin: Yeah, for sure. We’re building the Asian American left at 18 Million Rising, so you could follow us there, and I’m @sharminultra [Cayden: And Samir, is there a place people can find you? Samir: Uh, yeah, I am a very quiet person. Uh, but direct action has been a big part of our struggles in the last few years, and we are really thinking about, like, how we can escalate strategically, so I am part of a network of direct action trainers called the Ruckus Society.Hit us up. We do trainings, go to our website, request a training if you need any direct action support. We love nerding out on action design and thinking about action curriculum and how we train our people to do action safely.And follow Ruckus Society, and I don’t really have a social that’s public, so… Cayden: that’s so fair. I respect your choice not to be perceived. Samir: I mean, also, I’m not Sharmin, I feel I learn from her so much, from Sharmin, so I just wanna name that, and also just from how I- And Sharmin: we’re friends.Like, we, we’ve done direct actions together. Like, we’ve been arrested together. Like- Cayden: Yeah. … Sharmin: we’re comrades, so it’s just so fun to be able to talk about this- Well, I really- Cayden: Yeah … Yeah. Thanks again, Sharmin, Samir. Absolutely a pleasure to talk, and I’m, I’m sure we’ll talk again soon. Sharmin: Talk soon. [Samir: Talk soon. Thank you, Cayden. Thanks, Convergence.Swati Rayasam: thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express, and an extra special thanks to our comrades at Convergence Magazine and the Block and Build Podcast. All of the show notes mentioned in the episode can be found on the Apex website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress. Find out what Convergence is up to at convergencemag.com.We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important.Apex Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keene Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Lee, Jelena Keene Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangaleshakr, and me, Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support, and have a great night. 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