<p>Karl Vaters joins Tom and Sean to talk about his new book De-Sizing the Church and how our obsession with bigness is hurting our witness. </p>

Ministry life is challenging – to say the least. Many pastors need encouragement as they face a time of uncertainty, crisis, or transition. Drawing from the experience and wisdom of those who deeply care for the lives of pastors, their families, and the local church, these podcasts speak to many of the core issues facing today’s ministry leaders. Join the PIR Staff and others as they offer a message of Gospel hope as well as insights on how pastors can protect their future and guard their present.