Today, Leslie sits down with Pastor Joe Smith, who leads Maison Church in Gainesville, Florida — a progressive, welcoming congregation formed from a merger of two churches. Joe shares his faith deconstruction journey, beginning in the Free Will Baptist tradition, where childhood teachings instilled deep fear of hell and the rapture. He traces his gradual shift away from fundamentalism, sparked by the birth of his daughter in 2002 and questions about gender hierarchy, accelerated by the political climate, and deepened during the COVID-19 shutdown when he had time to deeply study queer inclusion theology through books like Unclobbered and Changing Our Minds. The conversation explores themes of religious trauma, Christian nationalism, HSPs (highly sensitive people) and deconstruction, evolving views on sin and repentance, universalism, and the difference between certainty and faith — with both Leslie and Joe reflecting candidly on their own journeys out of fear-based religion and into a more inclusive, love-centered spirituality.