In this episode, we brought in two exceptional guests that are no stranger to chaos. In fact, they've identified ways to engineer for chaos. In the studio, we have Aaron Rinehart, CTO, and founder at Verica. We also have Jamie Dicken, former manager of applied security at Cardinal Health and current director at Resilience. These two are also authors of Security Chaos Engineering. If you haven't read that book it's already out, you should check it out. Chaos engineering is the technique of introducing turbulent conditions into a distributed system to try to determine the conditions that cause it to fail before it actually fails. So they simplify it. What we do with chaos engineering is learn about the system without experiencing the pain of an outage or an incident. You learn to trust your gear by testing.The biggest impact really came once we understood how security chaos engineering fits into the bigger security picture. It's not about just being a part of the latest and greatest techniques and having the excitement of doing something that's cutting edge, but security chaos engineering at the end of the day. It's useless unless what you've learned drives change.  Key Takeaways:  Aaron Rinehart on Twitter[email protected]Jamie Dicken on TwitterVerica on LinkedInVerica Free Book Learn more about Hacker Valley StudioSupport Hacker Valley Studio on PatreonFollow Hacker Valley Studio on TwitterFollow Ron Eddings on TwitterFollow Chris Cochran on TwitterSponsored by Axonius