Show notes
NSFW - Spoilers
GUI 254 - Ms. Marvel: We Don't Talk About Bruno
What does Fast and the Furious and Ms. Marvel have in common? They're all about family! We explore that family and SSN 1 of Ms. Marvel on this episode!
Panel: Mike "Hobbit" Bickett (Smack My Pitch Up/Deeply Upsetting) with Zaheen and Sean of The Manufictioners Club!
Follow The Manufictioners Club:
IG - https://instagram.com/manufictionersclub TikTok - https://tiktok.com/@manufictioners_club Twitter - https://twitter.com/manufictionersc Patreon - http://patreon.com/themanufictionersclubSubscribe to shows on the GUI Network: https://linktr.ee/GUInetwork
_________________________________________________
GUI Home - http://www.guipodcast.com
GUI Hotline: (804) 505-4GUI (4484)
(Message & data rates may apply)
Thanks to our sponsors:
Support GUI by shopping Amazon - http://amzn.to/2cg3FF8
Check out the ton of merch for the GUI Network on TeePublic: http://bit.ly/2CzNdyf
_________________________________________________
Twitter - www.twitter.com/GUIPodcastRVA
Facebook - www.facebook.com/guipodcastrva/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/geeksundertheinfluence/
_________________________________________________
● Track Info ●
Intro-Outro Music:
"Dead By Dawn” courtesy of the “Creep-A-Zoids
Used with permission
Geeks Under the Influence is a trademark of Michael Bickett. All other trademarks mentioned are the property of their respective owners.
[email protected] for sponsorship inquiries
Transcript (auto-generated)
the views and opinions expressed on geeks under the influence are that of the panelists and not of our sponsors amazon.com and t public parental discretion is advised [Music] you've got love and thunder that just came out recently that has that same kind of ragnarok vibe it looks almost like a lisa frank painting and then even with you know loki was doing that a bit as well and then you miss marvel with the uh what do they call it hard light i'm not sure what it's called but i loved lisa frank as a kid it was every single like folder notebook pen pencil literally anything i could get that was lisa frank i got i just loved all the colors so i'm with you i'm obsessed with like these bright color schemes what's interesting with uh miss marvel speaking of with the the fun coloration is that it is interesting to see a new youthful character in the marvel cinematic universe i mean we've seen 36 000 different iterations of spider-man but to have another teen hero in the grouping some of the most formative stories are the ones from you know a person growing up you know a person being a child at the beginning of the story and then going through these trials and finding themselves in adulthood at the end of that story and to see what they've done with kamala in this series has been really intriguing to see her navigate between being an american teen and um being like a religious and cultural minority uh in america as well and a superhero is right you've got a lot going on no i think you're so right right like having someone who is someone having someone who's a bra like not only just like a girl like a woman a young woman she's also brown she's also muslim and these are things that are i think less so now than let's say two decades ago um things now are a little less contentious but still are not always viewed upon as like favorable traits to have so having someone portrayed in like a positive light um and just opening up this sort of culture to such a broad fan base i think is i i mean i think it's great i was really thrilled i i was as well i was fortunate enough to get a heads up from friends that the miss marvel comic was coming out a friend that got a chance to kind of read a couple pages that you need this book you need to get this book it's really good and i uh read the first issue and then just started collecting after that because it tells a story that i can't tell because it gives me insight into stuff that i'm not familiar with you know i think that's the whole thing that makes content exciting is when it teaches you something new it introduces you to something new it's like why people watch documentaries why people see watch and listen and read these stories so the idea of you know there being fans out there that they say they can't connect with the character so they're not involved in this story i feel like there's something not not broken with them i think there is actually a conversation we had about how people are consuming content because we have so much you don't have to hear those stories about other people you don't have to gain insight anywhere you can stay in your little bubble but i feel like the most valuable stories i've ever heard and seen in my life are the ones that tell me something that i can't experience on my own i completely agree like when p when i hear people say that my initial reaction is sort of like not quite anger but it's just like what are you talking about you can't relate but then when i like think about it a little bit more i just really end up feeling kind of sad because i know my perspective i know what my life is like as a woman as a brown woman as a muslim woman i know what that life is like for me but i don't know what life is like for you know a a black teen growing up i don't know what life is like for i don't know an older white man i i just don't know what these experiences are like well i feel like everybody's got a good idea of like i know what an older white man's life is like because that's pretty much what the rest of the content happens okay fair fair maybe not my best example but you see my point yeah you watch you watch a couple of uh jedi town movies and throw in swingers and then you're good to go that's pretty much it but essential viewing exactly uh we are talking about a miss marvel on this episode of geeks under the influence we're going to be digging into well a whole lot um to be discussed the original comic book the adaptation into the series on marvel it's a conversation about culture in america and how navigating uh being a superhero and the trials and tribulations to come with that and how that mirrors growing up as a teenager and all the trials that you go through that way as well so i am excited to get into the content so uh welcome to geeks on the influence all things marvel welcome i'm very honored to have some timers here on geeks under the influence to help me discuss this uh this content here this ms marvel show that's coming out that definitely has a lot of uh mixed feelings about it which is something we are going to get into pretty much right away but uh before we start from the manufacturer's club podcast we've got zaheen and sean here hello it's so good to be here thank you for having us on mike absolutely thanks for coming on um i a friend of ours sophia that has written for uh gui before and was able to hook us up which is great because this is this is really interesting topic here talking about the progression of marvel in general uh we've talked on previous episodes that there is a i don't want to throw it all in his cart but there was a um executive by the name of ike perlmutter there was a big challenge in the early days of marvel with uh growing the diversity on screen he was anti a female-led and minority-led shows and uh movies early on uh eventually fighty basically going to disney and it's like it's him or me i can't answer him anymore and him getting kind of pushed slowly away from everything and uh since that's happened you've gotten the black panthers and you've gotten the uh captain marvels and you know these series as well with um lady hawkeye and uh and miss marvel and you're it's becoming more and more diverse and uh i guess the question i want to start with on this episode before we continue much further is the increased diversity within marvel do you see ms marvel in its treatment of the character as having uh done it organically that that introspective look at like um a person of minority culture and religion and age even in america and how that informs the story did it feel shoehorned in or pushy um or did it feel like it was an organic conversation i i just think that with the show in general i think it focused very much on well first of all i would just like to say i love having the representation sure um so even if it is a sort of stereotypical quote-unquote uh representation of you know what a brown muslim family is like i at least it's something it's a start um i will say my one issue was you know of course kamala has strict parents you know of course she has the parents who are like okay well you need to focus on your future you need to just you know whatever instead of just being a kid right sure that's something that i feel like i mean it's a stereotype for a reason a lot of young brown people experience that but is it kind of i don't know i mean yeah that's the kind of what i was looking at it's not something i can answer is it's tricky that you want to portray commonalities that a lot of people can you know identify with within a group but if you do it too hard then it can come off as shoe horning or so it's it's a really tricky line to draw um which unfortunately like with you know white male culture being the dominant force it doesn't suffer the same problems where it's like uh we like barbecues and our backs being scratched you know it's just it could be the dumbest thing ever i think i mean i get it because in a way like i know i can i love my parents i can definitely relate to having strict parents i can definitely relate to having religious parents um but i can also relate to having you know i think towards the end kamala's mom especially starts to accept what's happening right um so i can definitely relate to you know my parents aren't they're not just like they don't have blinders on it's not just well it's my way or the highway they're also flexible people so i'm glad that there was a bit of that that was sprinkled in as well but i think you know there's already a such there's already the perspective that like you know brown parents muslim parents they're always super religious they're always super strict and i feel like stuff like this just tends to enforce that um so i don't know i had some mixed feelings about it but i think overall positive because i was just happy to see someone like me sure yeah i took it a little bit differently and not surprisingly but i really enjoy the fact that they in addition to making it a story about a muslim girl growing up in jersey city they also made it very much an immigrant story um having having lived in new york city a long time having gone to school near new york city and meeting lots of kids who grew up in immigrant households that was the same story it was exactly everything you just described the units we have to be strict because you have to think about your church and you know we sacrificed everything to get here and we can't let you go out and party and you know lose your identity and become this you know uh sort of loose cannon american teenager who just goes off and does whatever she wants so i actually really appreciated that they did take sort of those same things that you zaheen experience as a stereotype of muslim parents brown parents and i i thought they did a really nice job of transferring that into the overall immigrant experience while maintaining a lot of the same cultural references like um the festivals the bazaar that they go to in jersey city in the show so i i i thought they did a good job of blending it but that's my point of view well i i would tend to agree only that you're talking about introducing not just a character which is already heavy lifting in a first season you have to introduce their their origin story which is already a lot of work and all the auxiliary characters the siblings the parents the friends the villains the the whole world that you're creating but in that you're also trying to tell backstory an entire culture at the same time so it's not easy well i don't think there is a way to do it perfectly i mean there's been the most deftly done movies and shows but for the most part there is going to be a little bit of a clunkiness to that because in this show we're talking about the partition which i knew until a doctor who episode better explained it to me um i knew the basic idea of what happened with the partition like the big in this year kind of level of knowledge without any kind of real insight into how damaging this was to families uh then doctor who helped inform me of that a little bit more and then of course this show as well but also reading into it i don't know how you tell this story without having to go okay listen back in you know and then have like basically a history lesson for those unfamiliar it's like when uh the watchmen series came out and they talked about the tulsa bombings and stuff that a lot of people were unfamiliar with that because we just don't get taught that stuff in american schools not at all never brought up so you kind of have to throw in history lessons as well though the out-of-country visit was a little clunky at times i felt like there was kind of a necessity there also at the same time to kind of backfill the story of then you know this family and also what this family has been through um yeah them to that states in the first place you know yeah i'm i'm with you there i think like like you said uh just people aren't taught stuff like this i wouldn't have known anything about this or you know i'm bangladeshi not pakistani but um i wouldn't have known anything about you know partition or the bangladesh's independence from pakistan if not for being bangladeshi right and like learning it as a kid i'm sure that a million other versions of this story have happened throughout history that i don't know of because we just don't get taught it in schools sure um so to that end yeah i think i agree it probably was a little clunky the way that they did it in the show but i agree it's definitely a necessity and i'm glad that it was done i don't know if within six episodes there was any way to do it anymore seamlessly right they didn't give themselves a lot of buffer room yeah and i know that this suffered like a lot of the shows suffered i watched this video where they overlapped the filming time that they showed had that started before kovid and then had that huge like year break and then picked up again and this was filming at the same time that wanda vision was filming at one point like the tail end of one division filming was the beginning of filming of this that's how compressed all this filming was so they may have wanted eight episodes or ten but because of the you know the craziness that we've been through over the past couple years we ended up with six and six episodes to give all of that information is a lot is a whole lot and i felt the pangs of that definitely in this series not to say i didn't enjoy it i very thoroughly enjoyed this series but it is tough when you're compressing everything into that shortened amount of time unrelated to the specific story the whole six episode format i think has hurt several of the shows from disney plus and i've i've wondered if it's an over correction for the bloated 13 episode format of the marvel shows on netflix because those definitely got saggy in the middle and should have been more like eight to ten in most cases i think eight to ten is a sweet spot yeah like the eight to ten episode arcs on shows that i've watched that seems about perfect where you at most having maybe one lag episode like in season three of stranger things was that going to pittsburgh side story was yeah that was really it was what was that anyway and now i'm back with eyeliner and it's [Laughter] that aside yeah 8-10 i think is a great um balancing and six episodes this story needed more especially with how much heavy lifting it was doing but i think we still got and partially because of the performances i think we still got some pretty well fleshed out characters you've got of course kamala who's the most important and uh and the actress um oh i'm forgetting her name fan now yes she is incredible and so charming and the fact that has never acted before and got this on a whim because she was a huge uh this marvel fan is everything that's so charming she is kamala basically that's ah wouldn't be surprised if she was writing fan fiction either right right an example of not hiring a 25 year old to play a 16 year really was actually a teenager when they started luckily that 90s 36 year old playing a high school senior thing is just not happening anymore thank goodness i just want to see the footage of the marvel executives drooling as she comes in and she's charming and and does a great read but then also talks about oh i have this picture of me from years ago dressed as the character and i'm a huge fan and they're like oh this is like just counting the money of how perfect the story that is to spend on um uh promotion and stuff so um it was a perfect fit and her family felt very uh well the mom kind of was a little heavy-handed at times but overall was a decent character the the father was great brother was great like uh his uh fiance most of the family felt loving and felt like a unit it definitely did pretty well um but i wanted to you know throw it to zaheen a little bit on i don't know how much that story being told on screen is just kind of a generalization or how much of that is just kind of the ebbs and flows of uh culturally of a family that's kind of uh you know first and second generation and of different levels of of uh maybe of the same faith but different levels of devotion to the faith and um i i i saw that with kamala still being of the faith but like less inclined than her brother was who was slightly more chill than the parents were so did that kind of ring true i think that that is actually one of the most accurate depictions of what you know like the modern immigrant muslim at least brown muslim family is in in america right like i can speak to my own my own family right like my sister and i are not as religious as my parents are but my parents have people who are more religious than them like they're brothers and sisters some of them are more religious some of them less so so there's really just like varying sort of levels of that kind of thing but what i thought there was a really good emphasis on was the emphasis on the family unit as like in general like one really big thing in our culture is that family is quite literally the most important thing and that's where we you have the most emphasis in your life when it comes to person-to-person interactions sometimes to a detriment sure where it's like oh you can't do anything because it'll look bad for your family and you have to put your family before you but um i think actually more and more i see a lot more um people of more like bengali indian pakistani people of my generation the first generation americans more or less being able to sort of take their own lives in their own hands and their parents being supportive after you know maybe some maybe some struggle but um their parents ended ending up being really supportive so that's actually i actually thought that was a really great um thing that they did on the show i love the term turn with the mother at the end when she realized okay this this story is real the stars to the train were real and then it was like a switch where it's okay i mean please don't die but also like you have these superpowers and stuff like yeah you should help people and that was pretty great that's the biggest thing right like i think that i i really really appreciate it because it's true our parents are strict but they want the best for us and the reason they're strict is because they love us so much it comes from a place of love it doesn't come as i mean this is again also generalization sure but i was gonna say it doesn't come from a place of control it's it's truly they want the best for you because there have been so many things in my life where my parents wanted one thing and i wanted another and then once they accepted the other thing that i wanted they were all in they said okay you know what this is what you decide what if this is what you want then we're supporting you 100 whatever you need we got you and having that kind of just all-in support is is really nice even if you kind of have to fight for it in these brown families well you look at you know the story of people immigrating to this country are as diverse as the people that are immigrating to this country but one thing that is a common theme is that when you leave everything behind to move to a totally different culture it's usually for a reason and there's usually a lot of trauma that comes from that there's a lot there's a pretty detrimental reason for the move so there is this trauma that happens couple generations before that then slowly takes those generations to heal from and that's where you're seeing stories like to a lesser degree miss marvel i think there was a more like friendly approach to that conversation as opposed to like the conversations in everything everywhere all at once and and kanto about generational trauma that were i mean crushing crushing you know i actually still haven't watched everything everywhere all at once because i don't feel that i'm in a i'm in the mental state right like for it because it's yeah it's one of the most incredible films i've ever seen i mean i'm very excited to watch it i just haven't believable but it is it's heavy i mean it's it's heavy in the right ways but it it's gonna take a lot out of you yeah it's at the level of like the first time i saw end game and i was just like a husk afterwards and like like clean they're just empty inside what have i just witnessed dehydrated from tears [Laughter] but on a more playful part of this conversation i did want to talk a little bit about the change to kamala's powers in this versus the the comics uh she is a polymorph in the comics uh which means basically can shift her her her body shape and size she can embig in which is like her call her tag line in the in the comics and stuff and um basically big fists big feet uh can grow really big sometimes and uh it's it's very fun uh to to see on uh and actually can can shift into people too at times i think that's the first thing that happened in the comics she ends up turning into into carol danvers for a second um so that's different uh it's very i feel like tied it in a little bit closer at the end of the series but like what did you think going in where it was hard light is what they called it that it all came from this bangle that she wore on her wrist um there's a that's i think the main controversy that i've seen for the most part with this series i was gonna i was gonna say the bengal felt contrived to me but i'll let i'll let sean speak more to that okay unlike you mike i did not have a friend who was plugged in enough to uh tune me into ms marvel when it first arrived in 2013 but as a result of the series i've gone back and read the initial um five or six issues and so i think marvel did something really tricky but really interesting with the way they changed her powers because uh this this i'm going to go off at a little bit of a discursion so sure please please entertain me it's not the first time so that was me buckling up yeah i tend to not always but tend to read teenage superpower stories where you know adolescent boy or girl achieves superpowers as a metaphor for puberty and adolescence in general you know that you're you're you're developing your body you're becoming a different person your your physical you know your your knowledge of your physical being is changing and you're you're identifying yourself in different ways and i think in the comics having her powers be very physical and like you just described you know she changes her size she changes her appearance she makes different parts of her body bigger or smaller i felt really emphasized that but i think on a disney plus show and disney plus now has the punisher and jessica jones or some very very hard dark adult material which is so funny to me when it's like the punisher now on disney it's just john berenthal going or uh you know it's a season two walking in the whole spoiler alert um walking into uh the room with what jake saw and not saying a word and just shooting him in the face yeah yeah um which that that visual never left me but um i feel like for the disney show they needed they were trying to accomplish a few different things that were not part of the comic one um tie her into the larger universe of magic which i think is what they did with the nord dimension um they wanted to make it something that make her power something that she had to sort of develop into having a um a facility with because in the comics she just you know she does learn but she it's always physical whereas in in the show it's this hard light like you described so she's got to learn how to project it how strong to make it so she's got to sort of develop a familiarity with her powers and then finally it's sort of toning down the adolescent um you know puberty sort of metaphor i think for a for a broader audience and not making it so physical so i thought they did a decent job although i'm i'm with sahin the bengal felt a little contrived by the end of the show only because again spoiler alert if you haven't watched final episode you know they they basically say that she's a mutant and that the bengal unlocked her powers but maybe wasn't even necessary that's yeah i agree with you completely on that is that i am open to powers being changed out of necessity they are kind of pushing away from the inhumans which after that uh series wolf uh which by the way was also what my like pearl motors uh doing uh as from mentioned earlier um yeah i understand getting away from the humans the terengen myths aren't there that's not part of the thing but okay you've got she's a newer or clandestine uh she is a mutant and she also has a a magic bangle so like there's three origins of this character you need one that's like in underworld where it's like you're a vampire and a werewolf like you get one you get one origin you don't get multiple origins so yeah i agree that was a lot but zaheen has informed me that um jinns are not generally like positive characters either so giving her sort of a gin related origin yeah that's something i learned about from this series when i was seeing some of the blowback on social media and yeah zaheen if you want to kind of dig into that a little bit i mean it was just like a little confusing to me as all there was like a little bit of dissonance i feel like i grew up learning like gin are bad and or if they're not like bad evil they're just generally not really positive beings yeah um so then to see that associated with a hero i was like wait a second i was like i feel like there's a little something something that's off here but you know i'll just look past it i you know i i'm not a writer on here so what am i going to do who am i and that's what's tricky too is we were talking earlier about how you're trying to have a generalized conversation because you want to have like a shared experience from the the group that you're aiming for whether it be teens or uh guys that look like me uh which is most comic book shows let's be honest it's like chubby bearded men in their 40s you got to generalize a little bit and you do have examples of like mythologies and his and uh these these cultural stories being tweaked to be something that isn't magical as science or as some different version of you got like vampires aren't actually vampires they're this or you've got like thor and the other gods of viking mythology that are uh being played with as well but it is tricky when you go into the area of like are we gonna have a uh like a jewish golem at some point like where is the line where it's like not okay to play with those toys is a really tricky conversation after reading some of those you know the backstory on the gin and how it relates to i think i think what is also interesting is that nor like the word newer in arabic means light i believe like like light like divine light type of situation so to have like noor and jin and the juxtaposition of the two was very interesting to me they tried to explain it away in the series with like if if thor landed in that part of the world they'd call him as jin too and i'm like calm down that's yeah that's uh i mean they really tried there i saw what they were trying to do i just don't think that quite i think it's because that wasn't part of the original story like there's plenty of really bad tracking on characters in comic books that their origins are really bad like doctor strange and iron fist and basically any white guy that can do kung fu in the comic books is really bad and you got like the legend of fu manchu it's just like yellow menace stuff that's just really really really cringy yeah you don't you don't have to find more stuff to make cringy no there's there's a wealth of there's a lot of opportunity if you want cringe and like miss marvel came out in 20 like 20 2013 and like this is a newer comic you don't have to go digging for like weird appropriating like morphings of history yeah so i don't know i i think the zhen thing was a misstep i think the next and the response has not been great to it either i think they're gonna lean more towards the clandestine or the the newer as the term moving forward i think that makes that probably makes the most sense doesn't it yeah uh that's why i'm kind of excited to see what happens in season two because there's all this heavy lifting has been done now you've got the introductions of these characters you've got a little bit of a baseline about like what her family looks like and what that dynamic looks like and what she feels about her powers and superheroes and um now i'm excited to see what they can do with that that's going to be the interesting part yeah but uh we are going to take our break next time we see her is in is in the marvels right the marvel that is the next one is uh is in the marvels which you've got three different characters that they've introduced now that are very different places um story-wise and also locationally so i'm interested to see how that all works out but uh let's take a break when we come back i will talk about our sponsors a little and then get back into more conversation about season one of ms marvel so stick around we'll be right back coming straight from the mouths of madness i'm lowdown i'm fu hunter do you love heart we [ __ ] do so this is podcast dedicated to all things in cinematic car we're talking movies television composers special effects artists we're going to [ __ ] cover it so if you love more embrace the madness my name is amy bogard and i'm mike the hobbit and we are the host of deeply upsetting where we use our expertise to answer your most upsetting hypothetical quandaries such as what non-wigan animal deserves wings and what body part deserves a secret mouth which cryptid is the worst roommate these questions and more that plague you will be answered on deeply upsetting available anywhere you get your podcasts and at guipodcast.com in a world of blockbuster movies there's another dimension the dimension of schlock cinema join us at beautiful disasters on a journey into the fringe territory of b-movie abandon we review the flicks that are forgotten or under-appreciated to give them a proper place in the annals of celluloid history i'm the groots after you hunter your guide at beautiful disasters come along with us for a fun ride may the slack be with you in a world with too many reboots and remakes two men will stop at nothing to make it even worse join like the hobbit and tandy as they play by their removes while pitching new takes on some of your favorite enemies favorite films and tv shows what podcast you dare to bring this upon the world this is smack my picture hey guys scotty p here with smash on your left and we are the geek fathers that's right bringing all the trials and tribulations of being a geeky parent so welcome to our world and as always join us or cry we're back for the second half of geeks under the influence of all things ms marvel season one but before we continue on with that let's talk about our sponsors a little bit first off of course is amazon.com you know it you begrudgingly use it uh for all of your uh delivery needs uh understand it's not the greatest choice in the world nowadays but if you absolutely have to get some toilet paper and you're not gonna have a chance to get to the store amazon.com uh just make sure you go through the link at gypodcast.com that way we get some of the money that you're spending on this product instead of amazon so your way to stick it to the man is to still give the man money just slightly less like three percent of that goes to us so yeah it's not really effective rebellion but you know at least we can afford new microphones sometimes uh yeah uh the way we really want you to support us though the most effective means is t public.com t public you know it t-shirts stickers buttons uh baby onesies laptop covers all sorts of options for you for all the designs from all the different shows on the geeks under the influence network guipodcast.com hit that t public store and pick out of the over 40 designs that we have available in our store uh inside jokes from this show from beautiful disaster smack my pitch up from the house of madness beautiful disasters geek fathers all the shows on the network there's inside jokes different designs that we've done for different episodes different logos all available through t public on sale all the time if they're not on sale when you check it out wait a couple days it's like every week half of the week is on sale so don't buy it full price i'm telling you i'm we make more money when it's full price screw that wait until it's on sale and get just buy more crap um there's so many fun designs uh there is a new uh jurassic park design that we just dropped on there of the uh dinosaur trainer t-shirt that we have available and uh we just dropped a stranger things design on there as well so check those out and uh that really does help us out and also buy them for your friends there's gonna be a baby out there that needs a baby onesie that has live left love spelled out in the intestines of human centipede so that is the best way to represent gui is with really bad humor tea public and on to our regularly scheduled conversation normally here we would do a uh what we're drinking for an episode i thought especially since we're virtual so the idea of shares would be a little bit more challenging to like get that stuff to you in time and everything also i was having a direct conversation about like a muslim family i felt was like a little weird to pair a booze with since that's not traditionally uh something that happens so we're going to go ahead and forego that on this episode and just jump right back into the meat of it a little bit so when you last left us we were discussing kamala and her family and her powers primarily was our last little bit of conversation and how that was altered uh from the original and and then the newer stuff um the second half is always a little bit more off the rails and a little more fun um i really wanted to get into are we gonna see kamala become a more like uh how do i put this without being gross um a more adult uh character as because she's like she's in her teens now but she's not far from adulthood and she does have interests in boys but you haven't seen it more than just adorable puppy dog guys and like wanting to hold hands is about the extent of where it's gotten to um i even in the comics i never really look at kamal as being a sexualized character which i've really appreciated how do you think they're going to try to navigate that on this show um because you know this is one of the few marvel characters we've seen that is a child when we meet them and it's always a hard transition to being an adult character and they've already let peter parker have a girlfriend uh they always portray him as just like a charming dork like even if he wasn't being sexualized necessarily there was definitely still like 35 year old women being like that 16 year old boy is my boyfriend energy in hindsight very bizarre no not great definitely awesome um but with with uh with kamala i i think they're handling that even with even more uh gentle kid gloves um and i appreciate that but also yeah that navigation is gonna be tough i think there are sort of two ways that it can go just based off of how brown girls grow up in america so the first way is the way that you know it's supposed to go where you know she is not as religious as her parents but she stays within that she doesn't really date as much she has people like obviously she's a person with feelings right so she has feelings for people and that gets handled in a nice like religious sense they you know meet a couple of times in islam you're supposed to you're the way you can do like halal dating is what it's called the way you do that is by going on dates with like a chaperone so like you meet this person and you're if you've watched bridgerton it's kind of like that where like you'll go for a walk in the park and your chaperones will like be walking behind you together chatting just making sure that nothing untoward happens right that's a really cultural thing for a lot of different cultures actually like we uh for fourth of july we decided in true patriarch uh spirit to watch good morning vietnam right uh and even in that movie they have where he's on a date that is chaperone that like the entire family is kind of like hovering back as he's on this date that's very old school but definitely a number of different cultures have that kind of approach yeah and i know like that still happens that definitely happens today i know people who have you know dated like that right and it's been fine right because they're in happy loving marriages and it worked out beautifully right so whatever works for people but the other way that i think it could go if they want to make her a little messy is is she does the typical i don't want to call typical she does the thing where she dates behind her parents back and she's like a little afraid to tell them before anything gets too serious because parents will either be like no not great or oh you found this nice boy that you like okay great that's awesome let's get you married so that everything is nice and good to go and you can do whatever you want right so i think personally and i don't want this to again come off as a stereotype if they do it this way but i love the idea of having her be a little messy i think it it really humanizes her in a way she's not like this perfect girl um or anything which i really appreciate because no one is perfect sure i don't think you'd have to go too hard it's not like the one episode of miss marvel well she tries ketamine like you don't have to you don't have to you don't have to go like shoot for the stars there you can do something like she has like a beer and she feels a little bit dizzy you know like marvel goes to brigane yeah right he'd have something just normal after school special level of like she tried a cigarette you know something really just um still family not stoked but it's not like you know she doesn't have to go miss marvel because it's rehab the relationships that's hanging out there just waiting to be addressed very much in a you know moonlight sort of situation as is bruno bruno clearly has a thing definitely and man bruno was such a sad sack character in this series he's just like he i mean it as something that i can definitely attest to from my youth is that um talking about like privileged privileged energy was the idea of like i was nice to this girl so she should have to date me it's that idea that just because you're nice then that's all it takes for a person to like well why wouldn't you date me well because they're not attracted to you like it's not rocket science be friends yeah yeah yeah but it's the idea that part of the thing that was a turn off that i learned later in life from having these conversations with uh women that i was interested in like say high school and then just became good friends with is that yeah trying that hard isn't attractive like it's weird it's like do you want a soda yeah it's a little bit much so that's something i learned just from experience that doesn't mean you can't treat people well but being a person servant isn't like saying that you could be a good partner so no it's a little scary right like the word partner implies a partnership instead of like uh idol worship sort of yeah and bruno was definitely like oh like he he was learning he was learning a different language for this girl like and everything about the culture and like doing research on the gin and everything just just please like how did he find out that how was he the one how did he come into the uh come to the knowledge of her being a mutant like how did he find that out did he like steal some of her hair and like get it tested there was a mention of him analyzing something but i'm also this is a [ __ ] 16 year old i'm smart friends when i was in high school like i was part of the ap programs and stuff and like we were all smart as [ __ ] there was not a single one being like that gene looks mutated it's not let me let me compare this to the human genome and see what i can get and you'd have like again like another beautiful mind scenario where you're just right trying to figure out what's happening he builds a like uh you know a security system for kamala's family like from parts oh yeah he builds an alexa he builds like an off-brand alexa alexis they just gave me one like literally i got in the mail from amazon they're like and then alexa and i called them like i'll just keep it i don't i don't want this no it's you can just have it like they're confused like no they want to listen to you they do they're good they're trying to make sure the ads are good like i have four podcasts you can listen to me it's not difficult so you have the problem where if you talk about her i don't want to even say the name like she like perks up and starts listening and then no next thing you know you've ordered like a random like i don't know a pack of pens or something bizarre i'm very careful about the smart stuff in the house uh because well i have friends in i.t and if you have a friend in i.t you know that they have a computer from like 18 years ago and just keep operating upgrading and having nothing voice activated they have a phone that's a flip phone with no like they they are so backwards because they're like smart technology will ruin the world uh there so i've listened to them enough to know that at least nothing that is always listening yeah but yeah with the spark technology there's nothing that is just constantly listening like i have a button after push or something to hold down in order for the smart thing we have a fire tv but it's a button to push down to have alexa answer any questions so oh yeah that way there's no constant listening stuff i won't do it i'm too no like yeah you can see her in my back she's right hold on right here she's always listening so i can't say the name otherwise she just she's like hello but like amazon what are you saying like if they're not literally just giving it to you they're like it is twelve dollars even twelve dollars hook it into any hook it into your phone and it will work like it works anywhere like everyone should have it just have one an echo dot here you go um what are they planning yeah so the fact that he built his own i mean without doing any conspiracy theory stuff he was like because because i'm because they're listening you know he was just nope for fun let me build this ai if alexas are listening oh my god oh no she's she didn't say anything if alexa's are listening then who's to say that bruno's alexa light is not listening that's true something to think about they do rely on the surveillance aspect of it in the first episode so they planned to anyway that's when they're gonna go to the avengers con he was like well i'll i'll keep an eye on when he's going into your room to check on you oh right yeah cause he that's right he said like basically told her outright yeah i can spy on you anytime i want oh no yeah it's kind of so in the industry we call those red flags yeah yeah i would say so imagine just bruno just like breathing heavy listening to just like creaking noises across oh i can't no we've just gone to a very dark place with bruno yeah we don't we don't need to we don't talk about bruno um but they got that just that with that level of to try hard during the series and then also the revelation we came to that he's also clearly listening in on kamala like sleeping is uh is a lot that's a whole lot mortifying really bud oh you know what caltech's great idea other side of the country great i don't know what they're i don't know what to do with bruno in this series like he seemed kind of unnecessary for the most part like he was there as like the sidekick but like he's the man in the chair yeah yeah to a degree i guess but um he he didn't end up being like super necessary i don't know he just weirded me out a little bit i think the the mirror was too clear from my like junior high school years i was looking at like please like me it's just not uh too much um but with uh the was it the red uh red dagger character um it's really handy that he had a friend that worked at the docks to help camron uh get away that was uh very very very handy amazing hot devices yeah hey plot devices actually do yeah let me make a call um that's very handy i feel like the camera cameron's mom whose name i'm forgetting um i think i think you're right yeah that's right she seemed like she was basically twirling a mustache through the series like she was like oh no i want to help never mind i'll kill you in like a split second do you know what's really funny about that though is that okay i i mean i have no idea if this is what they were playing that what they were trying to go for here but in hindi cereals like soap operas everything is extremely heavy-handed where there's always like an evil auntie who's like trying to i don't know like kill the new daughter-in-law because she wants to get her nephew's money i don't know there's always something crazy going on and it's always like oh no don't worry i'll help you pack your suitcase meanwhile she's like like sharpening a knife she's like i'm going i i'll come to your house and help you help you do this you know and it's just like very hammy yeah so i i don't know if it was an homage to that somehow but um it fits i don't know but yeah it was very it's very heavy-handed you might as well have had that bump music in the background when she came on screen it was great yeah uh cameron in the in the comics he's kind of a uh well not necessarily a villain always sometimes uh helps out sometimes doesn't um is is that in between character like a catwoman type character i guess that it can be both bad guy and good guy depending on the circumstances um i feel like they didn't give him enough justification to be a bad guy necessarily i mean you can see how he might get radicalized moving forward possibly um with you know all of damage control trying to murder him uh that can radicalize the person maybe that might do it that might do i mean historically speaking when an entire group of people tries to kill another group of people it tends to radicalize them i'd just spit ball in there but i mean i don't know i i think i i think you might be crazy yeah i think can't be right i'm again out of my element i'm not a talking crazy but the the department of damage control was was the bad guy they they were the villains no it was it was not specifically damage control it was the karen in charge of that division of damage control that was like no i'm going to get them i know they're up to no good it just like was ready and i thought that was actually like filming while they were walking yeah right i'm calling the cops i'm calling your cops jaywalked sorry i i don't know if you picked up on this but um having entered a mosque once in my life and being told that i had to take my shoes off i thought it was really interesting the way they showed they very deliberately showed her walking into the mosque with her boots on like to show the level of offense that that she was presenting to them and how how much disregard she had for their their customs and their their mores i mean to just to make things a little serious i mean this is obviously an homage to post 911 sure new york right like mosques getting surveilled you know any anyone who is south asian doesn't also this is another crazy thing right like anyone who is arabic south asia or south asian right they were surveilled pretty heavily when how does that even make sense the whole air the whole arab world plus south like south asia india pakistan bangladesh they're very diverse like in and of itself it's just a very diverse sort of situation many different religions and it's like what what do we do and the fact that you know like people were like there were hate crimes against people who were sick that went up it was just like i some like something got lost here in translation it was just like a very insidious time and i think you know damage control was very much like what was a ver was an embodiment of of this right it was symbolic of that right it was very very much and it's it's so sad how actually understated that is compared to the things that you see every day on the internet like when ms marvel first came out i saw posts on like marvel pages that people were posting is like they got to make it where where it's like it's a muslim character and and an indian character and she's gay and i'm like she's not gay and they're like yeah she was gay in the movie and like you mean america chavez wrong brown like that's the level of like i don't know it's one of the you know it's got that kind of energy no i i don't know i just think it's really crazy when they're like i can't believe they put all of these identities in one person they're just trying to you know take things off the checklist and without even the thought that there are many people out there who actually do sort of quote unquote check off all of those sort of like identities which people used to be for everything is that used to seeing people that look like them and stories that they can identify with and uh situations that they've dealt with in their own lives you know they aren't used to stories not being for them and you know what that doesn't mean you can't watch it that just means that you have to be able to enjoy a story about somebody else's experiences and that used to be something easy um that that that's changed so dramatically i don't i i don't want a virtue signal here but i i grew up in in the 80s and one of my at night i was a very big fan of still am a big fan of tennis and one of my favorite players was martina navratilova a blonde lesbian from eastern europe and i loved her all the same because she was just a compelling human being and it had nothing to do with you know trying to identify with her or having her represent me like she's just [ __ ] bad ass i loved it that's why i feel like i i was saying before like i feel so sad now i i get really angry at first and i'm like no actually it's just really sad when these people close themselves off to stories that aren't from people who look like them just because you there's so much richness in other people's lives and other people's experiences it's very sad when they're like well i can't relate to this because this is this is about a girl and girls are totally different i hate girly things yeah and it's just like and i don't know if you're gonna turn into a 16 year old girl if you if you end up watching like mean girls like that's not also mean girls rocks that's a great movie amazing it's such a good movie but like yeah i agree that you have to be able to it it's like i i'm not a fan of like balladier like female singers and stuff um it's not that i think they're bad or anything it's it's just no that's what you think isn't it yeah it's true they're bad they're bad and anybody who thinks they're good is bad yeah well obviously i will defend to my grave that adele has some of the most like jarring vocal like talents in the world it's like impossibly talented um that's the thing you don't have to necessarily have it be your thing to appreciate the good in it like that it's well conceived and well executed that's the thing i feel like i i think you hit the you know you hit the nail on the head that's the saying right you hit the nail on the head where i think nowadays when people if if you don't like something then if you say if you say a positive thing about the thing you don't like then you're seen as a hypocrite where in reality you don't have to like the thing to appreciate it's genius or merit or anything i uh i was on a a group page on facebook earlier for horror movies and stuff and uh somebody posted a screenshot uh where somebody defend like basically defended them uh to somebody that was gatekeeping they were like oh i love the paranormal activity movies and they're like well if you had any good taste in movies then you would like and somebody was like you know you can like different types of horror movies and nor so some yeah right so somebody posted that being like this is the way to do it like gatekeeping is so gross and this group that is hands down the most gatekeeping and the most nasty group that i belong to on facebook is like yeah gatekeeping's gross uh and so like those people are so dumb those gatekeepers and then i responded with the the meme of the like muppet looking back and forth thing the little being like when the gatekeeping group uh bats themselves on the back for hating gatekeepers or something and somebody was like well if you hate this group so much then why are you still here you know why don't you just leave and i was like i you know you can like some parts of a thing and not all of it like i was getting gatekeeped about pointing out the gate gives oh that's a mess it's the same thing if you hate it here so much why don't you just move because there are some things i like but again but you know with that same thought process you can't turn it around that if you don't like miss marvel why don't you leave and it's like no no they why why do i have to leave you know why can't they write better stories or something along those lines it's not a two-way street no is it no only certain things are allowed to exist and other things are bad and wrong and need to go away there's no value to them there's no audience for them they shouldn't exist it's it's such a psychotic way of looking at things yeah it's insane it's like the original star wars movie was okay it's good it wasn't like it was it was great if you were a kid then as i was because it totally changed the way you saw movies and what was possible but if you watch it today it's flawed it's not a perfect film by any means i'm obsessed with the original trilogy i still have a vhs so i can watch them on super uh special editions and stuff have a bunch of action figures in the background somewhere um yeah star wars fans are hands down the worst they are the [ __ ] worst they like it makes me not want to be a star wars fan because they're so bad and you know what the original trilogy i'm obsessed with it by no means perfect it's goofy it is so friggin goofy and weird at points but you love it for its scars you know you love it for its uh missteps and so then you look at something like miss marvel where there wasn't anything that was really okay the gin thing maybe a little bit of a misstep but like the it's not a perfect show by any stretch but it's not a bad show it's a good time uh aman valani the the main actress having never acted before was so [ __ ] charming and and so adorable and so kamala khan and i was like i'm over the moon that they got such a great actress to portray this character that i love um and that alone makes it worthwhile i don't know i'm i was about to say i don't mean a diatribe but that's literally why i started a podcast um well that's why we're all here right yeah right no but it's true right like having um yeah i don't know just like having these stories get told is just i don't know there's just something so fun in it there's no you don't have to aim for perfection if you aim for perfection then everything just ends up falling to [ __ ] truly yeah like working with what you have and in their case it was this six episode you know time frame it you're nothing is ever gonna be perfect and yes there are some things that were a little like i'm not so sure about the gins but yeah um but still like it's it's representation first of all it's a fun show about a young girl which when isn't that fun yeah right it's like you're you're like lining yourself up for just like fun little misadventures when when you have that kind of like i sometimes wish this is a video show because you've got like some jazz hands off to the side like fun little adventures you should see us in this video with it with the three hosts oh yeah there's a lot of movements i feel like you're pitching like a kamala explains it all sitcom series or something to happen yeah i i i i i gesticulate so much i don't know she's listening there's so much um i don't know i've like knocked stuff off my tables multiple times you have to incorporate for myself and also a lot of the other panelists uh that there's always uh stuffed animals nearby mine are in a box right now it's my little shark friend for sure oh actually not all of them you can see this is my squishmallow her name well oh yes yeah yeah she's the blob over here um her name was emily but she's a bat and i don't think emily is a good name for a bat that's just me and i like it when my stuffed animal have the same like their name starts with the same letter as the animal name oh gotcha okay so that there's alliteration so instead of emily she's emily she's emily the bat and honestly i feel like that just works a lot that's great anyway so that's that's who i have in my back she's the only one i haven't packed yet there she is nice yeah but yeah we noticed that people were like messing with the mic i'm not going to do it because i'll have to edit it out later but um like mess with the microphone or tap on the table or pluck things or just just little ticks and it would have to be edited out later so you put a little plush on the table and then suddenly they're playing with that and just picking at it and it doesn't make any noise so that was a that's so smart i learned the hard way trick of uh podcasting oh that's so smart maybe maybe maybe i need to do that i'm very fidgety so i think anybody that's a creative-minded person wants to create stuff wants to make things is going to have a little bit of that nervous energy so i think it's important to have something to busy your hands while you're focusing on uh and you know talking and stuff so which is my next podcast coming out talking and stuff you'll find next month where we do we are talking and we do stuff um but it sounds riveting and i i can't wait to tune in yeah i like the the the specific uh nature of that show you know it might be a little too niche but we'll see i mean there's an audience for everything right sure sure speaking of um before we say uh due to this audience uh here listening to this nonsense uh we are going to do the last little bit of our show and that's when we uh decided to make uh an effort to improve on the unimprovable um we're talking about of making a drunken scene [Music] making a drunken scene [Music] maybe okay so uh so we've got two little scenes from ms marvel and i think these are both from i believe this might be this last episode of the season if i'm correct um that these both of these quotes come from um there's one scene with ancient diver and uh seek abu dhala abdullah abdullah abdullah yeah um and uh then there's a kamala khan quote so if there's anybody that wants to do a specific role i will take what's left from uh from everyone i would love to do well i don't want to do an accent so maybe i'll do i'll do ancient diver then sean you have the choice between uh seek abdullah or kamala khan um [Music] i i i i don't know if it's gonna be good yeah i'm aiming for so like if if it makes you feel better i'm aiming for like [ __ ] valley girl situation solid and you know agent deaver was a [ __ ] valley girl in her youth of course definitely okay so i was gonna spice up the shake with uh a little sean connery okay all right then i get to be kamala khan i'm often mistaken for uh for a teen muslim girl yes that's listen it's a mistake anyone could make i see it yeah i mean yeah it's it's really in my in my in my smile really is where it is okay so between uh you two are the first to go in your scene uh whenever you're ready if you're a betting a potential suspect no one will be on your side shake i don't need anyone on my side i'm not even concerned if god is on my side as long as i am on his side for god is always right nice ugh i don't have time for quranic quotes ugh excuse me actually missy that was able to happen lincoln nice yay that was awesome better than the original oh yeah obviously oh yeah clearly clearly all right well now i have the the disservice to this property by doing kamala khan so um i will do my shitty sylvester stallone there we go hey [Laughter] so why didn't they do that in the original right i feel like that was the way to read that line in in that show and i think they just missed an opportunity now i think we all want to see a season two with sylvester stallone playing kamala khan yeah i mean i think it would be i just think that would be genius personally my country for that season um yo i'm here for it um that is one thing i do love that they actually incorporated in big end by the tail end of the series i feel like her power started to mimic her polymorph powers from the book a little bit closer by the end of the series which i which i did appreciate although apparently there is time travel she can time travel to save her own great grandmother i guess too or grandmother or whatever but [Laughter] by the way time travel okay cool i guess who knows what'll be next but i'm i'm down for season two or what marvel has been doing is not necessarily maybe a season two as some continuation of the story with a new title or what have you but the the story of kamala continues in the marvels uh that that will be hitting theaters i'm excited about that until then i want to thank uh the two of you for joining me on this journey through um the the newer dimension i guess i don't know well thank you for having us now you've got a podcast on yourselves uh that do we sure do let's let's hear about this this show i'm assuming it has some uh some geek elements to it as well safe assumption very safe assumption okay rich in geek elements um so as you mentioned at the at the top of the show mike it's the manufacturer's club and um it's the three of there's three of us zaheen myself and our other co-host who's not here carl and we all come from a product ownership business analysis product manage project management background and we thought it would be fun to deconstruct technology in genre fiction such as comic books um and walk through like the development life cycle of those technologies but do it in a fun freewheeling kind of discussion similar to what we just did here and uh season one was all about the iron man armor so you know how does tony how does tony uh you know arrive in the situation where he has to create the armor and um you know we talk about the differences between tales of suspense number 39 and the 2008 movie and you know sort of compare and contrast and then we go through the whole um development of the technology and how he tests it um some of which you actually see in the movie which you don't see in the comic book but um like i said just taking that sort of um that discipline of project management business analysis and applying it to uh technology and genre fiction and our season two is going to be coming out we haven't decided the exact date which we had before we recorded until that's fine sometime close to the end of this month of uh july 2000 or 2022. we'll throw on our social media when that's coming out give you give you uh some some exposure there because i'm interested to take a listen as well uh do you have an idea for what season two is going to be all about or are you oh yeah are you keeping that under under wraps or no i said but we definitely want to publicize it um so it's already been recorded because we we are in different locations so we got together in new york a few weeks ago and recorded it all nice and it is um it's all about doctor strange and magic as a type of technology yeah sort of pivoting off of arthur c clarke's famous quote that any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic so we went through you know spells as apps um and how you would develop those and yeah i mean yeah if if you're a geek and you like freewheeling fun discussions of geeky topics i think we're a good destination for you nice and where can we find your show apple podcast spotify wherever podcasts are available we're on it we're on instagram we're on tick-tock we're on twitter we're on and the most important one of all we're on patreon uh yeah i will share some links in our notes for this episode uh so that will be grabbable uh once this episode comes out uh thank you so much this has been so much fun to break down uh season one of ms marvel uh and uh thank you listeners thank you so much for joining us on this journey uh i'm mike the hobbit join us or die shut the [ __ ] up hobbit join us [Music] guipodcast.com no i'm gonna get them i know they're up to no good
