In this episode, we discuss what originally led us to become evangelical Christians and how those motivations have evolved as we've embraced new spiritual perspectives. Dave shares how hitting rock bottom with a drinking problem led him to find spirituality as an adult. Karen discusses the relief and security of being drawn to a guiding hand. We discuss what we miss from our time as evangelical Christians, but also how, ultimately, we lived so much in fear. We trace our journeys from that religion of certainty to where we are now - being more free in this place of "unknowing" and holding all beliefs loosely. Finally, we talk about how we've been dropping the judgments of ourselves and others, and what it really means to love yourself.  Resources MentionedRichard Rohr as a "gateway drug" to deconstructionBreathing Underwater Another Name for Everything PodcastThe Universal ChristFalling UpwardKen Wilber - Integral TheoryWaking up, Cleaning up, Growing up, Showing upTranscend and IncludeSam HarrisWaking Up"Consciousness is the only thing in this world that we can be sure is not an illusion"Meister Eckhart Book of the HeartAdvaita Vedanta (Nonduality)Other quotes"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" - Plato"And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew "I say that I want love, but really I want total acceptance. A new way to think about love is acceptance. Self-love is accepting all the parts of yourself that you wish didn't exist" - Quote from KarenContact[email protected]