We talk to CEO of Letsema Holdings Derek Thomas. Letsema used to be McKinsey's BEE partner until the Gupta-backed Trillion took their place. Derek talks about the trials and tribulations of being an ethical company and ethical leader, as well as what it's like to be a black-owned professional body not doing work with the SOEs. It's a very frank discussion with a leader who walked away from corruption and chose the righteous path. The question is though, did he finish last?