Halima and I continue our conversation about how people struggle with shame. This part of the conversation goes deeply into leadership. We tackle how chaos aggravates one's feeling of shame while hiding others' feelings of shame. We also go into how organizational culture plays into individuals' feelings of shame and also how accountability can be weaponized.

So, how do we deal with feeling shame in the struggle? Halima believes that tapping into our creativity could be a great answer.

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