Dr. Susan Friedman joins us for a discussion of the hierarchy of least intrusive, most affective (LIMA) intervention strategies. She has just written an update of her 2004 article: “What’s wrong with this picture? Effectiveness is not enough.” In Part 1 of this conversation we begin where just about every conversation begins these days - with the corona virus. The wearing of masks - whether it should be voluntary or mandated led us into a discussion of control which gave us the perfect segue into a discussion of Susan’s two articles and why she felt it was important to revisit this subject by writing a new article.