We started this conversation with an inquiry that Shannon’s been in for a bit: How do i build the capacity to really interrogate the tools I’m using? How do I develop a practice of looking at the tools and the ways that I use them that supports actually disrupting the norms that are making it so not everyone is heard?It ends up being a rather far reaching conversation that not only includes all of that, but looks at the ways we (white-bodied folks) don’t tend to give credit where it’s due. This is especially true when we consider the origins of many of the approaches we use in our work.We talk about the starting points for the conversations, and what does it really mean to move beyond the “formulaic approach” to some facilitation processes? How do we deal with situations where bottom up decision making is requested, but not actually respected in the end.