Being a Bob Dylan fan is a spectrum –whether you identify as a casual enjoyer if his music or a die-hard Bobcat, the umbrella is large and leaves room for multitudes. Over the past year, many Definitely Dylan episodes have circled around the relationship between artist and audience, how Bob Dylan presents himself and how he is perceived. In the final conversation of 2025 (which you’re hearing in early 2026), we’re approaching this topic from a new angle.My guest is Elizabeth Cantalamessa, an honest to god philosopher and one of the most fun people you can run into at a Bob Dylan show. We talk about Bob Dylan as the villain and trickster, selling out, and art as spiritual labour.