In Episode 131 of DC EKG, Joe Grogan sits down with Dr. John Goodman to discuss what both parties continue to get wrong about healthcare, why patient incentives still matter, and how market-based reforms could lower costs and improve access. Drawing on decades of work in health economics and policy, Dr. Goodman explains how special interests helped shape Obamacare, why supply-side constraints still distort care, and why patients are too often left out of the policymaking process. The conversation then turns to Health Savings Accounts, Medicaid reform, emergency room overuse, and why policymakers remain so resistant to giving patients more control over healthcare dollars. Dr. Goodman also outlines his view that self-directed care and consumer choice can improve value and expand access, especially for vulnerable populations. In the second half, Joe and Dr. Goodman dive into reference pricing as a major reform idea. Using real-world examples, they discuss how clearer prices and patient-driven decision-making could create more meaningful competition across healthcare markets. The episode closes with a broader conversation on bipartisan reform, the tax code, and why durable change remains so hard to achieve in Washington. In This ConversationWhat both parties keep getting wrong about healthcareHow special interests shaped Obamacare and why patients were left outWhy HSAs remain controversial and what they change about incentivesMedicaid reform, emergency room use, and patient accessHow self-directed care can improve outcomes and satisfactionWhat reference pricing is and why it could create real competitionWhy bipartisan healthcare reform keeps breaking down in WashingtonTimestampsObamacare, health savings accounts, HSA, John Goodman, Joe Grogan, healthcare reform, healthcare policy, Medicaid reform, emergency room visits, patient incentives, consumer-directed care, reference pricing, tax policy, bipartisan reform, healthcare economicsAbout Our GuestJohn C. Goodman is President of the Goodman Institute for Public Policy Research and is widely known for his work in health economics, Health Savings Accounts, and consumer-directed healthcare reform. Podcast: DC EKG with Joe GroganEpisode: 131Guest: John C. GoodmanSponsor: Survivors for Solutions – https://survivorsforsolutions.orgExecutive Producer: John “CZ” Czwartacki, DC EKG PodcastProducer: Stay on Course Studios – https://www.stayoncourse.studio