Glenn Packiam hosts a conversation with Rich Villodas, the Brooklyn-born lead pastor of New Life Fellowship, a large multiracial church with more than seventy-five countries represented in Elmhurst, Queens. Rich holds a Master of Divinity from Alliance Theological Seminary, and preaches and writes on contemplative spirituality, justice-related matters, and the art of preaching. His first book, The Deeply Formed Life, will be released September 15th, 2020. In this conversation, Rich talks about his vision of Christian hope and how it relates to his work on both formation and justice. Our inward formation is an expression of the healing work of Jesus, and our outward work for justice is a kind of micro-hope that gives the world a foretaste of the future. Finally, Rich describes the quality of a song of hope, and gives a surprising example.