Artist Arthur Jafa, winner of the Golden Lion at the 2019 Venice Biennale, connects with painter - and winner of the 2020 Rome Prize - Jennifer Packer. The conversation was led by Hans Ulrich Obrist, curator and Artistic Director of the Serpentine Galleries in London. They talk about what makes a work of art successful, the social, political and historical ways their work can be viewed, public and private mourning, and much more.