I almost didn’t read Permission to be Black because I knew that I—a white man—was not the primary audience. But as the father of a Black son who realizes the need for him to have a Black identity, I decided I needed to read it for him. That led to this following conversation with author A.D. Thomason, covering everything from understanding and processing generational trauma to leaving the evangelical church to what the Black community needs from white activists. It was a thoughtful conversation and I’m thankful to A.D. for his time. Check out the excerpt below, then listen the full episode wherever you get your podcasts or just by clicking the play button above.
The Interview | Permission to be Black by A.D. Thomason
This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. 
Josh Olds: What was it that led to you writing Permission to be Black?
AD Thomason: I was finishing counseling for the first time, which is a taboo in my culture, African American culture, inner city culture. And I was coming back from counseling, and I felt that my counselor gave me what I would call a cheat codes, you know, secrets, if you will…I saw them as such because they were so wise they were—so I felt like I was getting ahead in life.
And my people didn’t know about any of these, you know, as far as like: How to tell your story, how to release yourself, how to wrestle through your birth order, asking your parents “what was going on during my birth? Like, were you stressed? Were you joyful?” and that tying in to what type of child you were.
And then I started looking at why haven’t African Americans in the Diaspora known about this…oooooh…slavery? Right? Yeah, the slavery, you got Jim Crow piece. You got this Civil Rights piece. You got this redlining piece. And so as I started tracking through the eras, reverse engineering them, and I realized we weren’t considered human, and then we didn’t have a freedom to process our humanity and traumas and hurts and heal, because of the objectification.
Right? And so the burden in writing Permission to be Black was, because we’ve legally been withheld that permission to express our identity. And then now, we need the permission to be fully healed. And that hasn’t been something that’s been granted to us.
Josh Olds: In the first few chapters of the book, you write about how that trauma makes a lot of people put on a false self, and they’re never really being true to who they are. And some of that is self-preservation. Majority culture is saying, “This is the way we want you to be. This is the acceptable version of you, that we’re willing to see.” How do you begin to undo that as an individual, when you still have these systems of oppression still in place?
AD Thomason: Yeah. So, the biggest delineation I tell people they have to make or they’re not gonna be able to do it is—you have to delineate between human freedom and fulfillment juxtaposed to earthly success. If you tie earthly success to your humanity, you can’t do it. That’s the reason why you had the minstrel shows, or the Stepin Fetchits, or the you know, the Sambos, because they had to, quote unquote, “tap dance” to get this money in public. But then they’re another person in private, right? And the way you undo it is, you can’t tie your results to majority culture’s offerings. And that’s the problem. When you tie your results to majority culture’s offerings—well, you’re going to be at the whim of them. So you know, you got to be a nice Negro who wears button downs because you believe your success is tied to that. And when I say success, I’m talking about tangible results, versus being the fullest version of you despite the results. And a lot of people, that’s gonna be a wrestle for them, because for me, humanity is based on breathing, eating, shelter, and providing for your family.