In this controversial conversation, we share our thoughts and feelings about the downfall of Elizabeth Holmes—the youngest self-made female billionaire in history. After dropping out of Stanford at age 19, Elizabeth founded the heath-tech company, Theranos, and went on to raise a staggering $700 million before losing everything in an epic public scandal.

Listen in to hear our take on Elizabeth and her story, including the implications we think it has on other female founders.

Joy: The Dropout Podcast

Hustle: Loom