The US and its NATO allies are watching closely developments in eastern Ukraine, where the battle for Bakhmut rages – and where Russia may be on the cusp of victory in the city. Meanwhile in the south, Russian shelling has killed three people, including two children, according to the Ukrainian military. Mike Mullen served as President Obama’s chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and joins the show from Maryland. 

Also on today's show: Jing Tsu, Author, “Kingdom of Characters”; Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett, Assistant Professor of Immunology & Infectious Diseases 

To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices