Are South Africa’s unions relevant? Are they still too closely connected to the politics of the country’s ruling party, the African National Congress? (The party still enjoys an alliance with the country’s largest trade union federation, the Congress of South Africa’s Trade Unions (COSATU).) Can they rebuild to unite workers, communities and the unemployed? What we know is that South Africa’s labor movement is in crisis. Only 27% of workers are members of a trade union and soaring joblessness leaves many outside of employment relations altogether. In this episode, Will chats with Karl Cloete, the former deputy general secretary of South Africa’s largest trade union, the National Union of Metalworkers South Africa (NUMSA).