Agency Leadership Podcast

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the findings from the SAGA quarterly survey of small agency owners. They cover insights on optimism in business outlook despite recent challenges, with a focus on talent-related issues such as compensation, retention, and recruiting. They delve into some surprising statistics, such as one in five agency owners not paying themselves regularly and over 30% having reduced headcount in the past year. The conversation highlights the importance of agency owners paying themselves a fair salary, balancing employee compensation, and maintaining efficient business practices without overworking staff. They also discuss the significance of flexible work arrangements and employee benefits in improving retention. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “I think just about every agency owner out there could go and get a six figure job. So why are you taking on all the risk and stress if you’re not compensating yourself for that risk and stress?” * Gini Dietrich: “You should be paying yourself a living wage. And an employee should not be making more money than you do.” * Chip Griffin: “Working overtime should be because something legitimately came up that was out of the ordinary, an emergency of some kind. It shouldn’t be the only way we can do this work profitably.” * Gini Dietrich: “Reducing your pay as an owner while giving raises to your team is hurting you. It’s hurting your business. It’s hurting any ability to be able to sell in the next three to five years.” Resources * SAGA’s Q4 Small Agency Owner Survey finds continued optimism, reveals talent trends * Richard Dawson on Family Feud “Survey says” Related * An honest conversation about agency owner compensation * Ways you can compensate yourself as an agency owner * The difference between agency owner compensation and profits * When owners do work below their pay grade View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, as they say on Family Feud, survey says. Gini Dietrich: Is that show still on? I think it is. Chip Griffin: I believe it is. I believe it is because I see little reels that pop up in my Facebook and Instagram occasionally with funny moments, from it. Gini Dietrich: Survey says. Chip Griffin: Survey says. I don’t, I don’t know that they say survey says anymore, but. Gini Dietrich: We just showed our age.

In this episode, Chip and Gini delve into the importance of empathy in agency management. They emphasize the need for agency owners to put themselves in the shoes of clients, prospects, and employees to improve communication and relationships. Key points discussed include handling difficult client conversations, managing scope creep, billing practices that avoid perceptions of nickel-and-diming, and providing constructive feedback to employees without micromanaging. They also advocate for regular, honest communications with clients and creative solutions to financial challenges faced by both agencies and their clients. Key takeaways * Gini Dietrich: “It’s putting yourself in the shoes of the other person, and it’s ensuring that you understand your financials and how to make a profit and how to scope and you’re tracking your time so you know how much things cost.” * Chip Griffin: “The pressure on agencies is immense right now. There’s a lot of financial challenges that all agencies are facing. At the same time, we need to remember that most of our prospects and clients are feeling those same challenges.” * Gini Dietrich: “It’s leadership. And that’s what you should be aiming toward. Not management, but leading. Not managing, not micromanaging, not telling them unintentionally that you don’t trust them, but leading them the way that you want them to go.” * Chip Griffin: “You need to find ways to understand what the client needs and is looking for and how you can solve it rather than simply saying no.” Related * How to make conversations with your agency employees less difficult (featuring Allyns Melendez) * Building trust and letting your team shine * Raising Prices for Your Agency’s Clients View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I’d like to put on a pair of your shoes today. Gini Dietrich: I don’t think they will fit. Chip Griffin: I think it’s incredibly unlikely, that they will fit. Gini Dietrich: They don’t even fit my kid. Chip Griffin: I confess when we’ve met in person, I haven’t really looked at your feet that closely, but just based on our relative statures, I would be shocked if my feet fit into your shoes. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I don’t think they’ll fit. Chip Griffin: No, no. I think that would, I’m not sure it’s my style either, really. Gini Dietrich: Probably not. Probably not. Chip Griffin: I’m such a fashionista. Yeah. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I mean, right now I’m wearing my UGG slippers. It’s so, but look at how small they are. That’s a size five. They’re not going to fit you.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the complexities of pricing strategies for agency engagements. They explore whether agencies should charge more upfront for initial work, the importance of consistent revenue, and creative approaches to managing client expectations and financials. The conversation emphasizes understanding client perceptions and the necessity of knowing one’s financials to ensure profitability. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “Certainly think about those upfront costs, but I would try to amortize it over the course of the engagement. I think that’s a much better approach for ultimately winning the business.” * Gini Dietrich: “The first thing you have to do is understand your financials and if you don’t have the mind to be able to do it or you avoid it or you don’t want to do it, hire somebody to help you because if you don’t know those numbers intimately, you will not know how long it’s going to take before you are break even.” * Chip Griffin: “There are so many creative approaches that you can take to solving this problem of overwork at the front end of an engagement that you’re not able to recoup otherwise.” * Gini Dietrich: “Put yourself in the prospect’s shoes and say, Okay, if I were being pitched this program, how would it make me feel? Would I be able to do it? Really think about it from their perspective so that you can start to figure out if it makes sense.” Related * Using paid discovery to get better clients * Adapting your agency for risk-averse clients * 9 ways to price your agency’s services View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I think, I think we’re gonna need to charge a little bit more for the first few minutes of this show. Gini Dietrich: Great. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: So let’s see. How about we do 50 percent more than what we usually charge people to listen to the, to the show? Gini Dietrich: So like the first 10 minutes? Chip Griffin: Sure. So let’s see. So, Gini Dietrich: so right now we charge 0 per minute. 50 percent more. Chip Griffin: And if we add 50 percent to that. Let’s see. I don’t have a calculator here, but I’m pretty sure that’s still zero. Gini Dietrich: I think you’re right. Yeah. I think it’s still zero. Chip Griffin: Well, so what? You still get to listen to this for free. Good news, everybody. Gini Dietrich: Woohoo! Chip Griffin: So, no, but we are going to talk about a question that was asked. This is, this came up in the Solo PR Pros Facebook group, of which I am part.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss PR professionals wanting a seat at the table when it comes to business decision-making. They explore the need for PR professionals to build relationships across departments, understand business dynamics, and communicate openly with other stakeholders. The conversation emphasizes the value of collaboration, learning from each other, and navigating interdepartmental challenges to drive business growth and improve client relationships. Key takeaways * Gini Dietrich: “You should have relationships with people from different departments, and you should not bristle when they want to give you input on things because they look at things through a different lens and all it’s going to do is help you.” * Chip Griffin: “The vast majority of PR folks, in house or agency side, don’t know enough about business to be true business strategists.” * Gini Dietrich: “If you can have an open enough mind to invite them to your table, to be able to have those conversations and to listen, I think you’re going to have the opportunity to grow budgets, grow relationships, grow trust, grow all of the things that you need to do to be able to maintain clients for a really long time.” * Chip Griffin: “You can have an opinion as a consumer, as a user, as a general member of the target audience. But that is different from professional advice based on expertise.” Related * Handling clients who disagree with your agency’s advice * 7 reasons clients ignore advice from your agency View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I’d like a seat at the table. Gini Dietrich: Okay, no problem. Chip Griffin: Actually, I guess I’m already sitting at a desk here. And so I guess we have a seat at the table with each other at least. Gini Dietrich: You’d have to move the puppy, but you could sit at this, in this chair at this table. Chip Griffin: Well, I’d also have to travel like a thousand miles, so. Little things. Gini Dietrich: Well, fair, yeah. You can have a seat at this table. Chip Griffin: Well, thank you. You’re welcome. I appreciate that. But no, we are going to be talking about a seat at the table because that is something that PR pros, not just in the agency world, but in house and all of that, are almost always advocating for. I hear over and over again, you know, we, you need to give the PR folks, the communicators, a seat at the table for big business decisions so that they can be in on the advice. And at the same time, I’ve observed that most PR folks bristle when non PR people want to offer their input on PR activities, right? So if the CFO or the accounting team or the product team or the sales team wants to weigh in with the in house communicators or with the PR agency, they’re like, Hey, we’re the experts. Leave us alone.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the common challenges agencies face in obtaining timely feedback and necessary information from clients. They explore strategies for improving communication, managing client expectations, and the importance of having difficult conversations to maintain strong client relationships. The conversation emphasizes the need for agencies to be proactive in addressing issues and becoming strategic counselors rather than mere order takers. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “The clients never blame themselves or say, ‘we know this fell apart because of us’. They always point the finger of blame at the agency they’re paying.” * Gini Dietrich: “One of the questions you should ask your direct reports in every one-to-one meeting is what obstacles are you facing and how do we help you?” * Chip Griffin: “At some point, whoever is the senior person on the client side needs to understand what’s not happening on their side. Because it has an impact on the outcome.” * Gini Dietrich: “The good news is there’s a lot of project tracking software today that helps, because the client will get notifications and reminders that don’t have to come from you nagging them. Related * Setting expectations for agency clients * Why (and how) clients should manage their PR/marketing agencies View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: Gini, I think we need to talk about the fact that I’m just not getting enough timely feedback from you and input on topics and research and all of that kind of thing. Gini Dietrich: Okay. I like it. Let’s do that. Do I get to give the feedback now? Chip Griffin: I thought I was going to give you the feedback. Gini Dietrich: Shoot. I thought you were not getting timely feedback from me. Chip Griffin: I wasn’t, but I was going to give you feedback on your lack of feedback. I wasn’t actually. Yeah. Gini Dietrich: Oh, that’s very meta, okay. Chip Griffin: I, I’m afraid, I’m afraid what would happen if you actually started giving me feedback. Gini Dietrich: You should be afraid. Chip Griffin: Yeah, but no, we are going to talk about what happens when agencies are not getting what they need from their clients, whether that is feedback or research or access or approvals or edits or whatever, because this is a common challenge that agencies of all sizes have, but it, it has a particular impact on small agencies because you can’t be successful in most cases. If you are not truly working in partnership with your clients and getting things from them to move the ball forward. And that might be trying to arrange to get an expert on an interview with a reporter or something like that. And so you need to get schedules and can coordinate it. Not every client is good with that.

It’s business as usual in their 250th episode, as Chip and Gini continue to share their unvarnished opinions. At the risk of this being their last episode, they have once again chosen to tell you what you’re doing wrong as an agency owner. The hosts share specific examples of agency owners breaking or ignoring rules that they don’t like — or that clients may pressure them to bypass. They talk about compliance, ethical practices, and risk management for agency owners. They discuss the ramifications of behaviors such as unauthorized account sharing, misclassification of contractors, and copyright violations. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “As owners, we think about using the agreements that we have and the rules that are in place to our advantage. We ought to be doing the same when those rules apply to us.” * Gini Dietrich: “When clients ask you to do something that’s unethical or illegal, you have to be able to tell them no.” * Chip Griffin: “When there’s gray area, you have to make judgments. But if it’s blatant, then I’ve got an issue with it. And I think you should too.” * Gini Dietrich: “It’s not easy, but it’s ethical. It’s the right thing to do.” Related * How to think about HR risks in your agency * How agencies can avoid common legal mistakes (featuring Sharon Toerek) View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, this is our 250th and, and perhaps final episode. Gini Dietrich: It’s not our final episode, but it is our 250th. That’s amazing. Chip Griffin: It is, it is. It is amazing that we have managed to accomplish that. I think that’s more episodes than any of my previous podcasts that I’ve done. I can’t remember how many I ended up doing with Media Bullseye. Cause we stopped, we stopped numbering podcasts and this one, we don’t number it. It’s just our podcast producer, who is my wife, Jen, keeps them numbered behind the scenes. Gini Dietrich: She emailed us both this morning and was like, by the way, today is 250. And we were both went, Oh, Chip Griffin: and neither one of us pays enough attention to our own show to know that. So. I don’t know what that says about us. Well, hopefully we will not scare away all of our listeners, but, but we are going to speak some hard truths, I think, on this episode about, I guess compliance is probably the best word, most polite word to use here. But I think observationally, we have seen a lot of agency owners certainly over a long period of time, but particularly recently who don’t necessarily think that all of the rules should apply to them. Correct. And there’s something to be said for breaking the rules in terms of strategy or things like that. But when those rules are laws and regulations,

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss strategic planning for growing an agency in 2025. They stress the importance of planning during Q4 and consistently gathering ideas throughout the year, whether digitally or using methods like post-it notes. They highlight the common mistake of agencies relying solely on referrals or word-of-mouth without proactive strategies. The hosts also emphasize the need for business owners to define their personal and business goals before crafting a detailed strategy to grow, warning against simply emulating others without considering personal business objectives. They touch on diversifying revenue streams and advise focusing on mastering one business development approach well before expanding to other approaches. The importance of involving team members and contractors in the planning process is highlighted to ensure a holistic and informed strategy. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “You need to make sure that you’re defining what you want from the business before you start putting together the plan for the agency. Because otherwise you’ll just be following some steps that work for someone else, but not for you..” * Gini Dietrich: “I think a lot of agency owners say, well, I grow by referral and word of mouth, but they don’t actually do anything to help referrals and word of mouth come in.” * Chip Griffin: “What you need to do is pick one business development strategy and do it well and do it consistently. Once you do that you can think about adding additional tactics to it.” * Gini Dietrich: “If you hate speaking, if you don’t want to get up on stage, but you hear everybody’s doing it, don’t do it. Because if you don’t enjoy it, you won’t do it consistently.” Related * Agency owner growth expectations and business development insights revealed in Q3 SAGA survey * How to accelerate your agency’s growth in the year ahead * Smart use of content helps agency business development View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I want to know how do we grow our businesses next year? I realize that’s not a fun, entertaining intro. Gini Dietrich: I know, but you also, you also started this by flipping me off. So we’re, we’re in good spirits today. Chip Griffin: Well, you know, you were picking on me and I was having trouble getting the Streamyard thing to record correctly. And so, yes, we were off to a great start, but our goal is to help you to get off to a better start in the year ahead. Cause it’s Q4, so people are starting to make their plans for the next year, or at least thinking about it. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: And it’s better to be planning now than, you know, starting to think about it during the holidays and saying, Oh, wow, it’s January 1. I probably ought to do something different.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the critical aspects of onboarding new clients in the agency world. They emphasize the importance of setting clear expectations, proactive communication, and understanding client processes. The conversation includes tips for achieving quick wins without overburdening clients, integrating with client systems, and maintaining a sustainable pace. Both hosts highlight the significance of being adaptable and helpful, ensuring a successful long-term partnership with clients. They also share insights into balancing immediate results with strategic long-term goals. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “Setting clear expectations is fundamentally the absolute most important thing to do with any kind of relationship, but particularly the agency client relationship.” * Gini Dietrich: “There are lots of things that you can do really quickly to provide some tangible results that help clients understand that you’re doing work leading up to the longer play stuff.” * Chip Griffin: “It is a real balancing act to get this right in those early stages, because you need to show enough that it’s worth keeping you around, but not so much that you have nothing left to do.” * Gini Dietrich: “Our job is to make their jobs easier, and if you’re accustomed to G Suite and Zoom, which I am, going into a Microsoft environment is challenging, but I think it’s important to be able to do those things for the client to make things as easy as possible.” Related * Setting expectations for agency clients * How to onboard new agency clients View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m GIni Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And GIni, we have a new client of this podcast. We’re going to have to onboard them. I don’t know what a client of the podcast would do, actually, though. Gini Dietrich: I don’t, yeah, maybe it’s a sponsor. Chip Griffin: Could be. We get asked about sponsorships pretty regularly, but most of them are pretty sketchy, so. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Kind of like link backs. Chip Griffin: Having a sponsor would be more trouble than it’s worth, I think, so. Gini Dietrich: I think so too. Yeah. Chip Griffin: I kind of like that we’re free to say whatever we want and we don’t have to suck up to sponsors. Gini Dietrich: And we can be honest about vendors in the industry and stuff like that. Chip Griffin: Yes. But we’re not going to talk about vendors in the industry today because that would probably get us into trouble with or without a sponsor. So, instead Why don’t we talk about onboarding clients because this is a topic that came up recently in the Spin Sucks community and of course if you are not a member of the Spin Sucks community you should absolutely join it over conversations in there and so where do you go to do that Gini?

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of having clear alcohol policies in agencies. They explore the evolving norms of alcohol consumption in professional settings, the necessity of having written rules, and the implications for office events, client meetings, and expenses. Drawing on their experiences and insights from expert Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR, the hosts emphasize the need for leadership to set examples and consider the legal and liability aspects of alcohol use. They suggest practical guidelines for limiting alcohol use to ensure professionalism and reduce risks. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “My baseline is you should have rules about alcohol in place because it makes life easier for everybody. What those rules are… now that’s where it gets a little bit more complicated.” * Gini Dietrich: “In today’s day and age, everybody expects to have some sort of policy around it and it’s a really easy way to protect yourself and avoid taking the risk. Get something in writing and enforce it as needed.” * Chip Griffin: “Focus on leading by example here. The policies that you have need to be the same ones that you are adhering to because it makes it so much easier to enforce it.” * Gini Dietrich: “Most clients expect the agency to pick up the bill. So having a no alcohol expensed policy doesn’t work from that perspective.” Resources * Agency policies on using and expensing alcoholic beverages View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: Gini, I need a drink. Gini Dietrich: Awesome. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: You know, I, I have thought about how sometimes we should do like, you know, an Agency Leadership Podcast happy hour show where we are actually just drinking and we can start to give even more unvarnished opinions than what we usually do, but, but given how blunt we tend to be, I do get some criticism occasionally from folks about how blunt I can be. That may not be the best idea. Gini Dietrich: I think it’s a great idea. We should do it. We should definitely do it. Chip Griffin: But if we do it, we probably ought to have some policies around it. Probably. It’s important to have rules for your business around alcohol. Gini Dietrich: Yes. You actually did a little bit of digging and research on this to see how many agency owners have a policy on alcohol use and what it might be. So let’s talk about that because I think it’s interesting and it’s definitely something that we should all be thinking about if we don’t already have a policy in place. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, it is certainly something that, that I hadn’t given a whole lot of thought to in recent years, but, over the last few months, I’ve been asked by a few different agency owners about alcohol policies in terms of,

In this episode, Chip and Gini explore the challenges of ageism within the PR and marketing industries, with a focus on agencies. They discuss the stereotypes associated with older professionals, particularly concerning their perceived familiarity with platforms like TikTok. They emphasize the value of experience and the misconceptions around the cost of hiring experienced talent.  They advocate for creative solutions like flexible hiring and service delivery models including fractional roles to incorporate senior expertise while balancing the cost to clients and agencies alike. Additionally, the conversation addresses the importance of continual professional development for current team members and offers advice to experienced job seekers on navigating ageism in their job search. The co-hosts also offer insights for older, more experienced job-seekers on maintaining a positive presence in the job market and using one’s network effectively. Key takeaways * Chip Griffin: “Flexibility is absolutely key because the workforce overall, not just in our space, has changed so much in recent years that I think everybody needs to be thinking about more creative employment solutions.” * Gini Dietrich: “Look for people that can help you reach your goals more effectively. And it doesn’t have to cost a whole ton of money.” * Chip Griffin: “There’s no risk in conversations. No matter whether it’s with a prospective hire, a prospective client, a prospective partner. Just talk to people.” * Gini Dietrich: “It’s going to take somebody with 30 years of experience significantly less time to do something than somebody with two years of experience. And so you actually may be saving money in the long run.” Related * Fractional C-level help for agencies * Should your agency hire specialists, generalists, or fractional team members? View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: Gini, I’m old. Actually, this week I do, I do feel very old. Gini Dietrich: You’ve been working a ton, that’s why. Chip Griffin: I’ve been doing too much, you know. Sometime I have to learn to say no to certain things, but I’m not, I’m not very good at it, so. Gini Dietrich: 80 hour work weeks don’t work anymore. Chip Griffin: Well, I mean, but, but half of that is my hobby job, so that’s different, Gini Dietrich: Sure, but it’s still work. It does count. Chip Griffin: It’s really more physically demanding, you know, my wife said to me the other day, she said, you did a lot of squats during that portrait session. I’m like, I was photographing a young lady who was about five feet tall. So. What it takes. Chip Griffin: Unless I just shoot down on her for the whole thing.