I personally subscribe to The Economist. SUMMER SALE to Aug 17, 2026: 50% off the annual subscription! No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOEGinestra Bianconi thinks gravity can be derived from entropy — and that gravity itself is fundamentally anti-reductionistic, since it's about geometry rather than isolated particle interactions. In this episode, the network-topologist-turned-gravity-theorist explains her "Gravity from Entropy" action, which treats matter and geometry symmetrically through a geometric quantum relative entropy (not the horizon entropy of Verlinde or Jacobson). She details why it reduces to Einstein's equations at low energy while predicting a dynamical, always-positive dark energy term (the "G field"), how it may avoid black hole singularities and reproduce the area law without invoking holography, and why she believes understanding the brain may be harder than understanding quantum gravity. We close with her advice for young researchers. I hope you enjoy.TIMESTAMPS:- - - - - - - - LINKS MENTIONED:Ginestra's Webpage: https://webspace.maths.qmul.ac.uk/g.bianconi/Ginestra's Papers: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ycQXwWgAAAAJGravity from Entropy [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2408.14391Geons, Black Holes, and Quantum Foam [Book]: https://amazon.com/dp/0393319911?tag=toe08-20The Thermodynamics of the Gravity from Entropy Theory [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.22545Notes on Some Entanglement Properties of Quantum Field Theory [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.04993Inflation from Entropy [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.23987Thermodynamics of Spacetime: The Einstein Equation of State [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9504004More Is Different [Paper]: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.177.4047.393Information, Physics, Quantum [Paper]: https://philpapers.org/archive/WHEIPQ.pdfNetwork Geometry with Flavor [Paper]: https://arxiv.org/abs/1511.04539Black Holes and Entropy [Paper]: https://physicsgg.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/black-holes-and-entropy_bekenstein.pdfGinestra's Lecture on Higher-Order Networks: https://youtu.be/o4TWDTgqQKYElan Barenholtz [TOE]: https://youtu.be/A36OumnSrWYFrederic Schuller [TOE]: https://youtu.be/Bnh-UNrxYZgErik Verlinde [TOE]: https://youtu.be/ilVImMHcr_gTed Jacobson [TOE]: https://youtu.be/3mhctWlXyV8Karl Friston [TOE]: https://youtu.be/2v7LBABwZKASubir Sarkar [TOE]: https://youtu.be/epkuoytFJWAStephen Wolfram [TOE]: https://youtu.be/FkYer0xP37ERoman Yampolskiy [TOE]: https://youtu.be/TgFmA-QwsekEva Miranda [TOE]: https://youtu.be/6XyMepn-AZoCumrun Vafa [TOE]: https://youtu.be/kUHOoMX4BqwNeil Turok [TOE]: https://youtu.be/zNZCa1pVE20David Kaiser [TOE]: https://youtu.be/_yebLXsIdwoIvette Fuentes [TOE]: https://youtu.be/YWbjI-QsH2EPhilip Mannheim [TOE]: https://youtu.be/rNXNHYvS7zUFOLLOW:- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- Substack: https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/subscribe- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- Crypto: https://nowpayments.io/donation/TOE- PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=XUBHNMFXUX5S4Guests do not pay to appear. #scienceLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices