In this episode of Underscore, host Christian Solorzano speaks with Dave Pabellon, a designer, educator, and core organizer of the Design As Protest Collective, about his journey leading up to his current role as Assistant Professor of Design at Notre Dame.

He reflects on his father's paradoxical advice to "be good, but not very good"—a philosophy that has shaped his humble approach to design and teaching.

The conversation explores the challenges facing design education today, including students' tendency toward outcome-driven thinking over experimentation, the current threats to DEI work and the complexities of creating truly inclusive spaces, and Dave's belief that designers hold more power than they realize to amplify voices and create clarity in complex times, all while emphasizing the importance of community, self-care, and practicing design with intention.