Tommy talks with former Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns about his three decades at the State Department. They discuss US relations with Russia and Jared Kushner’s backchannel, Trump’s trip to Europe, Bill’s role in leading the Iran talks and what it means to be loyal to a President and country.

NATO, mistakes we made in Libya, and lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan

“Pod Save America” cohost Tommy Vietor thought foreign policy was boring and complicated until he got the education of a lifetime working for President Obama’s National Security Council. On “Pod Save the World,” he and former deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes break down the latest global developments and bring you behind the scenes with the people who were there. New episodes every Wednesday. To get access to extended ad-free Pod Save The World episodes, sign up to be a Friends of the Pod member at crooked.com/friends