<p>Ben Ratliff and Joe Coscarelli discuss Ms. Trainor as surprise, as a formula, as contrivance and as a product of Nantucket, hip-hop and Nashville.</p>

Sleater-Kinney Returns

The Popcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica, a pop music critic for The New York Times. It covers the latest in popular music criticism, trends and news. 

Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp