Virginia Heffernan talks to ProPublica's Justin Elliott about his reporting surrounding Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, and the most recent developments in Trump's defense including the impending hire of Ty Cobb. Also, Jamie Gorelick is stepping back from the Russia investigation on Jared Kushner's side – what does this mean for his case? And what impact do all these different lawyers on all these different sides have on the collection of defenses building up inside the White House?

Slate Plus listeners stick around after the show to hear our producer, Jayson De Leon, chat with Slate's Ben Mathis Lilley about his cover story "The Wasted Mind of Ben Sasse." If you're not a Slate Plus member go to slate.com/trumpcastplus to join. That's slate.com/trumpcastplus.

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